The unnatural sex practices of the Mormon people

[_Buffalo]

The church has historically taken a very narrow view of what it considers "unnatural" sex practices. These practices include homosexuality, oral sex, masturbation, etc.

Of course, all of those practices are very much natural and very much a part of the spectrum of normal human sexuality.

On the other hand, the church has encouraged and continues to encourage unnatural sex practices. These include:

*Refraining from necking, petting etc while dating
*Refraining from premarital sex, even between fiances and others in a committed relationship; putting the breaks on normal physical expressions of love until an arbitrary legalistic hurdle has been cleared - one that, ironically, Joseph Smith ignored his whole life.
*Celibacy among homosexuals


I'd like to see the church move away from encouraging these types of unnatural (and often harmful) sex practices.

[_harmony]

Well, you can't expect the Brethren to be right about everything.

[_Buffalo]

Well, you can't expect the Brethren to be right about everything.

Or just about anything, it seems.

[_zeezrom]

Buff,

I think we have two different definitions of "natural" here.

1. Natural, as in "The natural man".

2. Natural, as in "good and wholesome".

The latter definition is used to describe the more sultry activities they warn married couples to stay away from.

The scenarios you mention (necking, petting, masturbation) are referencing the first definition of "natural". These are natural activities of the carnal man that we must stay away from.

Thanks for the OP! I had never considered there being two definitions before...

[_Tchild]

I'd like to see the church move away from encouraging these types of unnatural (and often harmful) sex practices.

Agreed. Mormonism regresses normal human sexual expression in many cases, creating undo shame, guilt and psychological hang-ups (like men and women who feel guilty engaging in "normal" sexual intimacy even after marriage...I know or have heard of many such persons).

Shame on you LDS church with your repressive and unnatural sexual phobias.

I always thought it was so odd that a person could hypothetically sneak away five minutes before their marriage, have sex, and have committed the "sin next to murder" and somehow grieve God, the angels and all the other heavenly voyeurs, but, by hanging in to some arbitrary moment of time known as the "official" marriage ceremony, God is well pleased and no sin committed, despite no difference in spousal commitment or love one towards the other.

Truly, the most disgusting aspect of Mormon teachings and the main reason I cannot have my children (or myself) attend the church even socially; I don't want that sort of harmful thinking passed on to my children like some debilitating mental virus.

Makes me sick to think I ever bought into such a dysfunctional system of sexual repression.

[_Buffalo]

I'd like to see the church move away from encouraging these types of unnatural (and often harmful) sex practices.

Agreed. Mormonism regresses normal human sexual expression in many cases, creating undo shame, guilt and psychological hang-ups (like men and women who feel guilty engaging in "normal" sexual intimacy even after marriage...I know or have heard of many such persons).

Shame on you LDS church with your repressive and unnatural sexual phobias.

I always thought it was so odd that a person could hypothetically sneak away five minutes before their marriage, have sex, and have committed the "sin next to murder" and somehow grieve God, the angels and all the other heavenly voyeurs, but, by hanging in to some arbitrary moment of time known as the "official" marriage ceremony, God is well pleased and no sin committed, despite no difference in spousal commitment or love one towards the other.

Truly, the most disgusting aspect of Mormon teachings and the main reason I cannot have my children (or myself) attend the church even socially; I don't want that sort of harmful thinking passed on to my children like some horrible mental virus.

Makes me sick to think I ever bought into such a dysfunctional system of sexual repression.

Mrs. Buffalo and I both felt guilty for having plain old vanilla sex on our honeymoon. Sometimes I'm not sure that she doesn't still feel guilty about having sex. I should ask her.

On the Mormon Expression podcast about women's sexuality, someone made the point that the young women have it drilled into their heads so much that they can't lose control (& that they're responsible for not only their own virtue but for the good behavior of the men they date) , that when they're finally married they often can't enjoy sex or have orgasms - because to do that they need to relax and give up all that control.

[_zeezrom]

...because to do that they need to relax and give up all that control.

This is pretty hard to overcome. I'm not sure how much of this is cultural and how much is specifically Mormon. You would think that a church with vested interest in healthy marriages would have a leg up on the rest of the crowd. That would be a minimum requirement, I would think.

The church desperately needs some sort of class for women (and maybe some men) that teaches them how to "lose control", fantasize, enter the state of mind that allows for pleasure, etc. The class could be called, "Unlearn what you've been taught for years."

[_zeezrom]

Buffalo,

Please let me know if you feel I'm polluting your thread. I'm watching this one closely but maybe I'm being annoying, I don't know.

This particular topic is a big deal to me as the topic is centered on exactly what precipitated my loss of Mormon faith.

[_Nomad]

[Mrs. Buffalo and I both felt guilty for having plain old vanilla sex on our honeymoon.

Why? That's really weird. What was wrong with you?

Sometimes I'm not sure that she doesn't still feel guilty about having sex. I should ask her.

Why? That's really weird. What is wrong with her?

On the Mormon Expression podcast about women's sexuality, someone made the point that the young women have it drilled into their heads so much that they can't lose control (& that they're responsible for not only their own virtue but for the good behavior of the men they date) , that when they're finally married they often can't enjoy sex or have orgasms - because to do that they need to relax and give up all that control.

We don't have these issues in our marriage. Although I admit that the intimate relationship in a marriage evolves over time. Everyone who has been chaste before marriage is going to go through a period of "learning" after they're married. What? Do you think people who have premarital sex do it perfectly first time and every time? I find that hard to believe. I think all premarital sex does is shift the learning process to a time and place where one is more than likely too young to deal with those kinds of passions and emotions, and with someone who is not committed to the relationship. Odds are that going that route just makes it harder to eventually be successful in a marriage, what with all the baggage and bad memories, etc.

There was a great article on CNN.com yesterday: The Joy of Comfort Sex. I don't endorse the whole thing, but I thought it had a lot of good things to say.

Any married couple, LDS or otherwise, who is still having martial intimacy problems after a year or two of marriage needs to go see a marriage counselor. I reject the idea that there is something in LDS teachings that gets in the way of marital intimacy. In fact, I think avoiding premarital sex and remaining faithful in marriage is the best recipe for successful marital intimate relationships.

[_Nomad]

Buffalo,

Please let me know if you feel I'm polluting your thread. I'm watching this one closely but maybe I'm being annoying, I don't know.

This particular topic is a big deal to me as the topic is centered on exactly what precipitated my loss of Mormon faith.

You lost your faith because your marriage relationship is messed up in some way?

Did you try marriage counseling? Or did you just go straight to "the church caused this problem. Heck with the church!"