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One of my favorite things to research is the folklore that is used in Sunday School and held as doctrine, here are a few examples.

The camel going through the eye of the needle is a parable like message representing a hole in the wall of Jerusalem in which the camel must unburden himself and crawl through at night. However this is simply not true. I researched this after reading Jesus the Christ in which Talmage says it could also be a mistranslation and it really means rope through the eye of the needle. After a bit on the google machine I found some interesting issues with this idea. Ironically the best debunk came from the LDS website.*

The second example of this folklore used is with President Martin Van Buren. The story goes that Smith asked for Federal assistance in dealing with Missouri to which the reply was "Gentlemen, your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you... If I take up for you I shall lose the vote of Missouri". And because Van Buren was a greedy coward who wanted the vote, he refused to help with the extermination order. But there has to more to the story, or the quote is off a bit. Mainly this was 1839 not 1868 when we had the 14th amendment in the US. President Van Buren was right, there was nothing he could as the President. It was a state issue, the 10th amendment did not allow the Federal Gov to meddle with state issues. If he would have pushed to influence the Fed Gov onto a state, and a slave sate at that, the Civil War may have erupted 25 years earlier. Without the leadership of Honest Abe....now that is scary.

Any more Sunday School Folklore?

P.S. Did you hear that Steve Martin is taking the discussions?

* http://LDS.org/ensign/1985/03/i-have-a-question/i-have-a-question?lang=eng&query=eye+needle (it starts halfway down)

Interesting post, particularly with reference to Steve Martin.

Where is he taking the discussions to?

Disneyland??

MrFffish wrote:The camel going through the eye of the needle is a parable like message representing a hole in the wall of Jerusalem in which the camel must unburden himself and crawl through at night. However this is simply not true. I researched this after reading Jesus the Christ in which Talmage says it could also be a mistranslation and it really means rope through the eye of the needle. After a bit on the google machine I found some interesting issues with this idea. Ironically the best debunk came from the LDS website.*

This one came from other Christian faiths. I believe it came from the Medievil era when a preacher decided to make his (wealthy) congregation feel better about that scripture.

The second example of this folklore used is with President Martin Van Buren. The story goes that Smith asked for Federal assistance in dealing with Missouri to which the reply was "Gentlemen, your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you... If I take up for you I shall lose the vote of Missouri". And because Van Buren was a greedy coward who wanted the vote, he refused to help with the extermination order. But there has to more to the story, or the quote is off a bit. Mainly this was 1839 not 1868 when we had the 14th amendment in the US. President Van Buren was right, there was nothing he could as the President. It was a state issue, the 10th amendment did not allow the Federal Gov to meddle with state issues. If he would have pushed to influence the Fed Gov onto a state, and a slave sate at that, the Civil War may have erupted 25 years earlier. Without the leadership of Honest Abe....now that is scary.

This is partially true but the Missouri government was clearly in violation of the Constitution so the Federal supremacy clause applied. The state of Missouri was in violation of Constitutional principles when they expelled the Mormons from the state. There was a legal basis to intervene.

Admittedly it would have cost him the state of Missouri. It didn't have to lead to Civil War. President Van Buren could have used his influence to get the Mormon extermination order tried by the Supreme Court to try to remove local bias. Still, with the Supreme Court the way it was at the time not sure if it would have worked. Still, he could have tried.

The Nehor wrote:
This is partially true but the Missouri government was clearly in violation of the Constitution so the Federal supremacy clause applied. The state of Missouri was in violation of Constitutional principles when they expelled the Mormons from the state. There was a legal basis to intervene.

Admittedly it would have cost him the state of Missouri. It didn't have to lead to Civil War. President Van Buren could have used his influence to get the Mormon extermination order tried by the Supreme Court to try to remove local bias. Still, with the Supreme Court the way it was at the time not sure if it would have worked. Still, he could have tried.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, simple answers are fun.

A quick question...

In the conflict between the Mormons and the Missourians, who was the first party to use the word 'Extermination'?

Memory serves that Lilburn Boggs issued his extermination order on October 27th 1838.

Sidney Rigdon, in his oration from July 4th of that same year, said the following:

Sidney Rigdon wrote:We take God and all the holy angels to witness this day, that we warn all men in the name of Jesus Christ, to come on us no more forever, for from this hour, we will bear it no more, our rights shall no more be trampled on with impunity. The man or the set of men, who attempts it, does it at the expense of their lives. And that mob that comes on us to disturb us; it shall be between us and them a war of extermination, for we will follow them, till the last drop of their blood is spilled, or else they will have to exterminate us: for we will carry the seal of war to their own houses, and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed. --Remember it then all MEN.

Does anyone know if there were earlier references from either side?

MrFffish wrote: Talmage says it could also be a mistranslation and it really means rope through the eye of the needle.

So the stores will be closed on Sundays and Hollidays in the Celestial Kingdom?