What's the utility of faith?

[_Buffalo]

What is the utility of faith? Faith doesn't seem to be a principle that applied in the premortal existence, and yet we were able to be tested and make choices. It doesn't appear to be a principle that will be used in the afterlife either - faith will be replaced by knowledge. So we're not practicing for the afterlife with faith - it's only utilized in this life.

So of what utility is faith now? Faith is belief without evidence, and practicing faith in almost anything will have negative consequences. If you have faith in the wrong religion, you won't make it to the CK. If you have faith in a con artist, you will be swindled. If you have faith in a violent or perverse person, you or your loved ones may be victimized. If we have faith in pseudo-science, human progress is impeded.

So, even if you accept that the restored gospel is true, faith in most things is potentially damaging and dangerous. From a scientific perspective, faith will almost always yield the wrong answer. We don't need faith to make choices - we didn't need it in the pre-existence. In fact, the more information you have, the better you are able to make choices. We learn much more by the exercise of an informed decision after considering all the facts than we do by guessing. So free agency is really impeded by faith and enhanced by knowledge.

I would submit that faith as a religious principle is strictly an ad hoc doctrine, a theological innovation brought about to comfort believers in the face of a world that isn't really haunted by gods and demons and magic. People who don't suffer from hallucinations and don't eat spoiled food or hallucinogenic drugs don't tend to see gods or angels or hear voices. Faith is the ad hoc doctrine that explains why. Faith doesn't seem to have any value beyond that, however.

Thoughts?

[_Some Schmo]

I asked a good friend of mine (a christian) what good faith is. I was talking strictly about its utility. He said he'd have to think about it and get back to me.

When he did, he basically told me that it helps him through hard times.

That's fair. I get that. I really do. When the economy tanked a couple years ago, they were laying off people in my office like crazy, and I was very afraid I might be next. I remember feeling a desire to ask for god's help out of a very old, deeply ingrained habit, and then realized that I no longer believed in god. It was startling to me how much I had subconsciously relied on this fantasy of a loving god who would help me in times of worry/concern.

So it would be dishonest of me to pretend that faith has no utility. It does, just like any other placebo. The human mind is a powerful self-healer. Denial is one of our most important survival mechanisms.

It's pretty obvious to me that, even though the whole god/after life/supernatural existence thing is complete BS, it still has a use (a.k.a. utility), just like a placebo. For people who value comfort over truth, faith rocks.

My only objection to faith is when it's used to adversely affect other people. If it's just something that bounces around in your own head and doesn't affect the people around you, I don't care about it. However, if you feel called to condemn homosexual marriage, impede stem cell research, make raped women deliver their babies, fly a plane into a building, etc, “F” your faith. You don't deserve it because you aren't using it responsibly.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Faith is a brain-reaction to fear. It makes the powerless feel comforted, and in some cases helps them attain a measure of control either over themselves (their emotional state) or others.

Faith leads to irrational behavior & a lack of accountability for others. I'm not sure it's a productive brain-behavior.

- Doc C

[_Mad Viking]

I asked a good friend of mine (a christian) what good faith is. I was talking strictly about its utility. He said he'd have to think about it and get back to me.

When he did, he basically told me that it helps him through hard times.

That's fair. I get that. I really do. When the economy tanked a couple years ago, they were laying off people in my office like crazy, and I was very afraid I might be next. I remember feeling a desire to ask for god's help out of a very old, deeply ingrained habit, and then realized that I no longer believed in god. It was startling to me how much I had subconsciously relied on this fantasy of a loving god who would help me in times of worry/concern.

So it would be dishonest of me to pretend that faith has no utility. It does, just like any other placebo. The human mind is a powerful self-healer. Denial is one of our most important survival mechanisms.

It's pretty obvious to me that, even though the whole god/after life/supernatural existence thing is complete BS, it still has a use (a.k.a. utility), just like a placebo. For people who value comfort over truth, faith rocks.

My only objection to faith is when it's used to adversely affect other people. If it's just something that bounces around in your own head and doesn't affect the people around you, I don't care about it. However, if you feel called to condemn homosexual marriage, impede stem cell research, make raped women deliver their babies, fly a plane into a building, etc, f*** your faith. You don't deserve it because you aren't using it responsibly.

For some, faith has utility. I get that. What I don't get is the notion of punishment for those of us for which it has none.

[_Some Schmo]

...However, if you feel called to condemn homosexual marriage, impede stem cell research, make raped women deliver their babies, fly a plane into a building, etc, f*** your faith. You don't deserve it because you aren't using it responsibly.

For some, faith has utility. I get that. What I don't get is the notion of punishment for those of us for which it has none.

That's another case of people misusing faith. I have met very few people who actually do use it responsibly.

Don't get me wrong; faith's utility is extremely limited. If people of faith actually put it in its proper perspective, it wouldn't be nearly as important as people make it out to be today. It's like they're attempting to use a double AA battery to power their car and imagining they're going to drive to Mexico with it.

[_Hoops]

I reject the premise of your question, so I can't comment beyond that. I suspect the confusion comes from a misguided idea of what repentance is, though I certainly could be mistaken.

Repentance is NOT feeling sorry for one's sins, though that certainly is attending. Repentance is an emotional, spiritual, and intellectual conviction that God is who He says He is. From that, we are given the gift of Faith. It is not self generated.

[_Buffalo]

I reject the premise of your question, so I can't comment beyond that. I suspect the confusion comes from a misguided idea of what repentance is, though I certainly could be mistaken.

Repentance is NOT feeling sorry for one's sins, though that certainly is attending. Repentance is an emotional, spiritual, and intellectual conviction that God is who He says He is. From that, we are given the gift of Faith. It is not self generated.

I'm not sure what repentance has to do with anything. I'm talking about the utility of faith - in other words, belief in absence of credible evidence.

[_Some Schmo]

I reject the premise of your question, so I can't comment beyond that.

You reject that faith has a utility? I can totally understand that PoV.

Hmph. How ironic. I would have thought our positions reversed.

(Somehow I get the feeling you misread the OP. Perhaps you had a kneejerk reaction to the title and posted in haste. This is me giving you a humungous benefit of a modicum of doubt.)

[_Mad Viking]

I reject the premise of your question, so I can't comment beyond that.

You reject the notion that faith in the form of belief without evidence is a huge component of believing in god? You reject the notion that (according to many professors of said system) that god set it up this way?

I suspect the confusion comes from a misguided idea of what repentance is, though I certainly could be mistaken.

I share the latter sentiment with you. Based on what you say below, you do have a misguided idea of what repentance is.

Repentance is NOT feeling sorry for one's sins, though that certainly is attending. Repentance is an emotional, spiritual, and intellectual conviction that God is who He says He is.

On this you are also mistaken. What you've described is faith. Repentance does not require the existence of a god. Belief in a god doesn't either, but that is a different topic.

From that, we are given the gift of Faith. It is not self generated.

Faith is very much self generated. There are MANY folks who have faith in a god that is not your god. Surely, you do not recognize the source of their faith as being their actual god? I would wager that faith in what you would call "false gods" is indeed self generated. But... maybe it's my turn to be mistaken.

[_Sethbag]

All the faith of people who believe in gods other than Hoop's is self-generated. Hers isn't though, and she'd know it if she was wrong, just like everyone else who is wrong knows it. Oops, well, maybe not.

I agree with the OP. Faith is the "Trump card" that believers whip out and throw down onto the table when they realize they have run out of arguments.

Absolute, rock-solid, die-hard faith would render it impossible for anyone stuck in a false belief system to get out of it. That sounds like a Catch-22 to me. Believers, please resolve this for us if you can.