In Utah on biannual trip, wtf?

[_lostindc]

This place is so @ss backwards.

I have to go visit in-laws twice a year. I think the mountains are great and park city is pretty incredible but the rest of this place is just damn scary.

I have seen many bumper stickers professing their fears of Obama (I imagine for two obvious reasons: 1. he is black, 2. he is democrat). I have encountered maybe six african-americans since being here. This place is a winter-white-wonderland.

I am shocked that Mormons feel the need to put their kids in private Mormon schools as if their kids were not as sheltered as possible already. I cannot believe how sh1tty the public schools are here but I also cannot believe how sh1tty the private schools are, perhaps if Utah put a little money into education then this place may improve but this area is quite scared to develop critical thinking skills for the common person.

Everything is a damn chain, no real flavor.

There are like 4 or 5 universities to chooses from and only two of them even reach mid-tier.

Whats with all the polygamous? Even if you are mainstream Mormon it seems like everyone is one or two degrees away from knowing a polygamous. That is so F'ed up, and no one really seems to understand how weird it is...

Anyways, after all that complaining my wife will force me to live here to be by her family. The same family that has really never left the state of Utah. I do what I can to make her happy.

We are both on the fringe of leaving the Church in a quiet manner, it will be interesting to live in this state as an inactive non-believing Mormon. I guess everyone will assume we left because we wanted to masterbate and drink beers with 3% alcohol content.

[_Rambo]

I guess everyone will assume we left because we wanted to masturbate and drink beers with 3% alcohol content.

That's why I left! Except in Canada it is 5% so I had a greater need to leave.

[_DarkHelmet]

This place is so @ss backwards.

I have to go visit in-laws twice a year. I think the mountains are great and park city is pretty incredible but the rest of this place is just damn scary.

I have seen many bumper stickers professing their fears of Obama (I imagine for two obvious reasons: 1. he is black, 2. he is democrat). I have encountered maybe six african-americans since being here. This place is a winter-white-wonderland.

I am shocked that Mormons feel the need to put their kids in private Mormon schools as if their kids were not as sheltered as possible already. I cannot believe how sh1tty the public schools are here but I also cannot believe how sh1tty the private schools are, perhaps if Utah put a little money into education then this place may improve but this area is quite scared to develop critical thinking skills for the common person.

Everything is a damn chain, no real flavor.

There are like 4 or 5 universities to chooses from and only two of them even reach mid-tier.

Whats with all the polygamous? Even if you are mainstream Mormon it seems like everyone is one or two degrees away from knowing a polygamous. That is so F'ed up, and no one really seems to understand how weird it is...

Anyways, after all that complaining my wife will force me to live here to be by her family. The same family that has really never left the state of Utah. I do what I can to make her happy.

We are both on the fringe of leaving the Church in a quiet manner, it will be interesting to live in this state as an inactive non-believing Mormon. I guess everyone will assume we left because we wanted to masturbate and drink beers with 3% alcohol content.

Wow. I feel like I wrote this message. I'm actually in the process of moving to Utah because my wife has been bugging me for 5 years to be closer to her family. I actually got a nice job offer up here. We've visited it a lot, and I've always had the fear of living here someday, but since I've been out here, it's actually a really nice place. The people I work with are great, and most are non-mormon. I've heard the charter schools and private schools have pulled a lot of kids out of the public schools, which has hurt their funding. The reason why parents are pulling kids out of public schools is because the teachers bash the church too much. I don't think public teachers could get away with bashing a religion without losing their jobs, so I imagine its just Mormons overreacting. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the move.

[_lostindc]

This place is so @ss backwards.

I have to go visit in-laws twice a year. I think the mountains are great and park city is pretty incredible but the rest of this place is just damn scary.

I have seen many bumper stickers professing their fears of Obama (I imagine for two obvious reasons: 1. he is black, 2. he is democrat). I have encountered maybe six african-americans since being here. This place is a winter-white-wonderland.

I am shocked that Mormons feel the need to put their kids in private Mormon schools as if their kids were not as sheltered as possible already. I cannot believe how sh1tty the public schools are here but I also cannot believe how sh1tty the private schools are, perhaps if Utah put a little money into education then this place may improve but this area is quite scared to develop critical thinking skills for the common person.

Everything is a damn chain, no real flavor.

There are like 4 or 5 universities to chooses from and only two of them even reach mid-tier.

Whats with all the polygamous? Even if you are mainstream Mormon it seems like everyone is one or two degrees away from knowing a polygamous. That is so F'ed up, and no one really seems to understand how weird it is...

Anyways, after all that complaining my wife will force me to live here to be by her family. The same family that has really never left the state of Utah. I do what I can to make her happy.

We are both on the fringe of leaving the Church in a quiet manner, it will be interesting to live in this state as an inactive non-believing Mormon. I guess everyone will assume we left because we wanted to masturbate and drink beers with 3% alcohol content.

Wow. I feel like I wrote this message. I'm actually in the process of moving to Utah because my wife has been bugging me for 5 years to be closer to her family. I actually got a nice job offer up here. We've visited it a lot, and I've always had the fear of living here someday, but since I've been out here, it's actually a really nice place. The people I work with are great, and most are non-mormon. I've heard the charter schools and private schools have pulled a lot of kids out of the public schools, which has hurt their funding. The reason why parents are pulling kids out of public schools is because the teachers bash the church too much. I don't think public teachers could get away with bashing a religion without losing their jobs, so I imagine its just Mormons overreacting. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the move.

We are still job hunting. I have an incredibly safe job right now that pays pretty well and lets my wife not work even in costly DC (this is my argument to stay put). By going to Utah it will likely be a huge hit but she really misses her family.

I am so excited to sign my kids up at a school like American Heritage and watch them grow into a fear mongering, gay hating, anti-charitable (eg healthcare), conspiracy theorist, science hating young adults. I am sure only the best are birthed from such fine institutions.

Perhaps one of the kids senior projects will be: The Phenomenology of the Curse of Cain: A Modern Day Case History of Why White is Still Delightsome.

[Guest]

I just got back from Idaho Falls area. I went fishing. We drove pass BYU in Idaho many times. I think it's just different for each person. I'm back in Southern Cal and traffic etc. I think the area I went to would be nice if there were jobs and more schools. Maybe that will be in a 100 years. The thing that blew my mind : seeing people riding motorcycles without helmets.

[_harmony]

By going to Utah it will likely be a huge hit but she really misses her family.

I have a daughter in New Mexico, 18 hours from home. She misses us, and we miss her, but... her husband has a good job with the tribe there, and she is doing okay at standing on her own 2 feet. She comes home twice a year, and we try to get someone close to her at least once a year. Missing Home is not a reason to move. Economics, a better job, better health care for a chronically sick family member.. those might be good excuses to move. Missing Mom isn't.

I am so excited to sign my kids up at a school like American Heritage and watch them grow into a fear mongering, gay hating, anti-charitable (eg healthcare), conspiracy theorist, science hating young adults. I am sure only the best are birthed from such fine institutions.

Perhaps one of the kids senior projects will be: The Phenomenology of the Curse of Cain: A Modern Day Case History of Why White is Still Delightsome.

Enrolling children in private school is a two edged sword. Yes, they get more individual attention, but the teacher has to be someone you actually want to have your child be receiving that attention from. And at least in this state, you still pay the taxes that support the public school system, even if you have your child in private school or home school. So there are 2 pluses for the public school system if you take your children out: the system isn't as crowded if you take your child out of the system, and they still get your money anyway.

[_Blixa]

All I can say, lostindc, is that you don't know Utah very well at all if that is your impression. You also must not be in SLC, or not have explored it very much if you've not seen the lively ethnic or gay communities there: something which was an interesting facet in the city even when I grew up there 50 years ago, but which is more pronounced currently.

The mountains ARE amazing (but Park City has become an over-grown nightmare), but you also have access to gorgeous deserts of southern Utah and the eerie lunar landscapes of the Salt Flats to the west. Northern Utah also has its own charms if you know where to look. And if you don't appreciate the Great Salt Lake, you're really missing out. (Not the mention the many other lakes throughout the state.)

Utah also has a decent library system, I still use the Marriott Library quite a bit via e-access. And the more recent City Library is considered one of the best in the country. It has won several design and collection awards; my roommate, a crack librarian and currently the archivist of the NYC Parks Department's photography archive, is always on the look out for job listing there.

Despite some terrible commercial developments: the Gateway (to Hell) and the Thing That Ate Downtown, there are still plenty of interesting bookstores, small shops, restaurants and so forth. There are still a couple of tiny mom and pop grocery stores in the Avenues.

And while I admit, SLC was a late comer to historical preservation, they've reversed that trend with not only some investment in turn of the century architecture, but an interesting attempt at reworking and retrofitting old buildings to new purposes (over on the West side you'll see this---despite the *sigh* Gateway to Hell---in the preservation of beautiful old signage). Drive down South Temple, or better yet, walk down it. Visit the Cathedral of the Madeline.

You wanna see something interesting? Take a walk through the little ramble park that's been created in Parley's Hollow. As a kid, I used to die to get down there and see what was left. Now I'm able to thanks to Rocky Anderson's genius public works use of Olympic money (check out the bike trails around the perimeter of the city and all the sweet little neighborhood parks extending nearly to Sandy). You'll find the remains of the aquaduct system built by the early settlers to bring water into the city.

Your take on schools in Utah is insane, by the way. Across the U.S. colleges and universities are fighting for their lives. The kind of assaults on higher ed that myself and most of my academic colleagues are facing has not seemed to touch Utah---at least not yet. The Salt Lake City Community College system is stellar as far as community colleges go: something which speaks volumes about the level of education available there. There are more than 4 or 5 universities in Utah and your tier smear shows complete ignorance about the quality of state institutions in general.

You need to get out more and dare I say, read more. Start with some local history.

[_lostindc]

All I can say, lostindc, is that you don't know Utah very well at all if that is your impression. You also must not be in Salt Lake City, or not have explored it very much if you've not seen the lively ethnic or gay communities there: something which was an interesting facet in the city even when I grew up there 50 years ago, but which is more pronounced currently.

The mountains ARE amazing (but Park City has become an over-grown nightmare), but you also have access to gorgeous deserts of southern Utah and the eerie lunar landscapes of the Salt Flats to the west. Northern Utah also has its own charms if you know where to look. And if you don't appreciate the Great Salt Lake, you're really missing out. (Not the mention the many other lakes throughout the state.)

Utah also has a decent library system, I still use the Marriott Library quite a bit via e-access. And the more recent City Library is considered one of the best in the country. It has won several design and collection awards; my roommate, a crack librarian and currently the archivist of the NYC Parks Department's photography archive, is always on the look out for job listing there.

Despite some terrible commercial developments: the Gateway (to Hell) and the Thing That Ate Downtown, there are still plenty of interesting bookstores, small shops, restaurants and so forth. There are still a couple of tiny mom and pop grocery stores in the Avenues.

And while I admit, Salt Lake City was a late comer to historical preservation, they've reversed that trend with not only some investment in turn of the century architecture, but an interesting attempt at reworking and retrofitting old buildings to new purposes (over on the West side you'll see this---despite the *sigh* Gateway to Hell---in the preservation of beautiful old signage). Drive down South Temple, or better yet, walk down it. Visit the Cathedral of the Madeline.

You wanna see something interesting? Take a walk through the little ramble park that's been created in Parley's Hollow. As a kid, I used to die to get down there and see what was left. Now I'm able to thanks to Rocky Anderson's genius public works use of Olympic money (check out the bike trails around the perimeter of the city and all the sweet little neighborhood parks extending nearly to Sandy). You'll find the remains of the aquaduct system built by the early settlers to bring water into the city.

Your take on schools in Utah is insane, by the way. Across the U.S. colleges and universities are fighting for their lives. The kind of assaults on higher ed that myself and most of my academic colleagues are facing has not seemed to touch Utah---at least not yet. The Salt Lake City Community College system is stellar as far as community colleges go: something which speaks volumes about the level of education available there. There are more than 4 or 5 universities in Utah and your tier smear shows complete ignorance about the quality of state institutions in general.

You need to get out more and dare I say, read more. Start with some local history.

Lol, I agree that maybe I do not understand the value of the city library but come-on about the schools. A simple look at rankings can give a person a high-level view of the higher education opportunities in state. Add to the commonly used great schools ranking system in terms of public and private education and one can find that these schools are middle to even bottom of the barrel. What is fascinating is the extreme overcrowding with graduating classes reaching as large 2,000 in school districts such as bingham. I spoke to the former super and he informed me of the problems of kids not having books or even desks in some of the classrooms. The so called prestigious area of the avenues has east high school reaching a 3 out of 10 on the national scale. Name a Utah school and look at it's rankings in terms of the national level. I found that Orem hit a 7 out of 10 on the national level and this seems to be the highest high schools reach in the small sampling I have taken. I am sure there are a few higher scores but by and large the rankings are terrible (fyi park city high is 7 out of 10). A problem appears to be overcrowding, poor test scores, and a lack of funding for more schools and better teachers. Recent rankings put Utah at an overall 30 out of 50 which puts them below average. Perhaps you need to read more?

In terms of universities in utah not feeling the plight as many others, this can be seen in the lack of choice. If this population only has U of U, Utah State, and BYU as the only quality schools with one of these that is completely subsidized by tithing then I guess demand will likely remain.

by the way, bragging about a community college is kind of a stretch, not to many people care where a community college ranks. I applaud and love community colleges but we need to remain objective. Also I do like that one book store in downtown SLC that sells used and new books and rare Mormon texts. These types of stores are a dime a dozen where I currently live.

As we speak I am looking at a clear cut mountain crushed by devastating mining and layer of smog making the skyline appear blurry...mother earth appears to be in good hands under this progressive, diverse, earth-loving state.

[_madeleine]

Tips for a better life while living in the moridor:

- Don't go to the food chain restaurant. There are a lot of really good restaurants in SLC and Park City. Seek them out, try them out. You'll eventually find your favorites.

- Don't grocery shop on Saturday. Ever.

- Go to movie theaters on Sunday, even for blockbuster openers, you'll get right in, especially if you go in the morning.

- Don't watch local TV newscasts, it's all Mormon all the time, and do you really care what Mormons are up to? (I don't.) Just read the online newspapers, and skip past any story with "LDS" or "Mormon" in the headline (they'll be several every day). Don't read the comments under the news stories.

- If you have kids, get them involved in a group that isn't centered on Mormonism. Whether it is sports, hiking, day camps, etc. That is where you will meet non-Mormon adults, and where your kids will meet non-Mormon friends.

- There are lot of celebrations, concerts, events, etc. that are organized by non-Mormon sources. One of the better enjoyments in the summer are the outdoor concerts at Red Butte Garden. Bring your own wine, or cooler full of beer, or whatever, and enjoy some great music. In the winter, check out the Sundance Film Festival, Park City is a bit crazy during this time, but the screenings in Salt Lake are very enjoyable. Stick around for the Q&A's.

- Avoid the downtown area around the Mormon temple during the Christmas season and general conferences. It just isn't worth navigating all the Mormons.

- Go to the Tavernacle, just once.

[_harmony]

Lol, I agree that maybe I do not understand the value of the city library but come-on about the schools. A simple look at rankings can give a person a high-level view of the higher education opportunities in state. Add to the commonly used great schools ranking system in terms of public and private education and one can find that these schools are middle to even bottom of the barrel. What is fascinating is the extreme overcrowding with graduating classes reaching as large 2,000 in school districts such as bingham. I spoke to the former super and he informed me of the problems of kids not having books or even desks in some of the classrooms. The so called prestigious area of the avenues has east high school reaching a 3 out of 10 on the national scale. Name a Utah school and look at it's rankings in terms of the national level. I found that Orem hit a 7 out of 10 on the national level and this seems to be the highest high schools reach in the small sampling I have taken. I am sure there are a few higher scores but by and large the rankings are terrible (fyi park city high is 7 out of 10). A problem appears to be overcrowding, poor test scores, and a lack of funding for more schools and better teachers. Recent rankings put Utah at an overall 30 out of 50 which puts them below average. Perhaps you need to read more?

Link please. Interesting comments, but difficult to put into context without the link where you got the information.

In terms of universities in utah not feeling the plight as many others, this can be seen in the lack of choice. If this population only has U of U, Utah State, and BYU as the only quality schools with one of these that is completely subsidized by tithing then I guess demand will likely remain.

What about Utah Valley University? Or the one in Cedar City in the south, the name escapes me? How many more universities are needed, based on population? It's not like Utah has a population similiar to New York state or California.

by the way, bragging about a community college is kind of a stretch, not to many people care where a community college ranks. I applaud and love community colleges but we need to remain objective.

Not much respect for community colleges, obviously. What about LDS Business college? Try to keep in mind that each state has different needs, and Utah is trying to build a higher education system that meets the needs of Utah businesses, not DC businesses.