DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

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_Doctor Scratch
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DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

A remarkable thread is underway at the ironically named Mormon Dialogue board. As some here are no doubt aware, Brant "Big Boy" Gardner has just published a book dealing with the "translation" of the Book of Mormon. In response to this, rising star David Bokovoy launched a thread attacking Gardner's work. As usual, Bokovoy went out of his way to act the gentleman as he opened up his critique:

David Bokovoy wrote:Let me begin by saying that in terms of faithful LDS scholarship, there are very few people that I admire as much as Brant Gardner. In my humble opinion, his contributions to Book of Mormon studies and a defense of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon prove immeasurable. I love to read his ideas and hear his presentations. Whenever Brant shares his thoughts in any context, I always gain new and exciting insights into the text. He is a brilliant man. But more importantly, I very much consider Brant an outstanding person and a good friend. Honestly, I can't say enough great things about both Brant and his scholarship.

So in sum, despite the fact that I love my friend Brant and that his new book represents a worthy attempt for which he should be congratulated for approaching the topic with both faith and academic integrity, I find this new book very problematic. I'm not sure yet what forum I will use, but I feel far too passionate about this topic not to point out these issues.

Please note, I'm certainly not discouraging anyone from reading the book, to the contrary, this has become a must read for anyone interested in the subject of Book of Mormon translation. However, please be aware that there is another perspective that needs to be considered before embracing many of Brant's views, especially his critique of Hebraisms.


http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/553 ... -new-book/

I think that this thread is a must-read insofar as it may very well represent the first time in the history of the FAIR/MAD/MDD board where two highly regarded apologist-scholars have engaged in such powerful disagreement on such genial terms. By way of comparison, just look at the recent slew of attacks that Will Schryver lobbed at Don Bradley. The point is that this exchange between Gardner and Bokovoy appears to be precisely the sort of dialogue that the more scholarly types on both sides of the divide have been calling for. (It's worth noting that Brent Metcalfe appeared briefly to point out a couple of factual errors in Gardner's book, and Gardner graciously and admirably admitted the mistake).

So the thread is a worthwhile read, and I'm sure that onlookers will see that it unfolds in quite a nice way until page 2, when Mopologetic tag-team duo Peterson and Hamblin appear on the scene:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/553 ... ge__st__20

Dr. Peterson wrote:Could we have a little more interpersonal viciousness in this thread, please?

Also, an acrostic would be nice.


Bill Hamblin wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:Could we have a little more interpersonal viciousness in this thread, please?

Also, an acrostic would be nice.


Are you asking me to weigh in?


This was the sum total of the "contributions" to the thread from these two tenured professors and Mopologetic heavyweights.

Of course, a couple of the thread participants (including Bokovoy) played along and indicated that Profs. P. and H. are funny as usual, but I think these two posts are incredibly telling, and I thought they were worth singling out--particularly in light of the recent revelations from Mr. Stak concerning Dr. Peterson's hapless and boneheaded (and perhaps dishonest) use of sources.

It has been argued before that the "Mopologists"--i.e., the LDS apologists who are the most vicious and aggressive--are not really interested in the substantive issues most relevant to Mormonism, and that instead they prefer polemical warfare and game-playing. This latest Bokovoy thread could not be a better or more clear illustration of the truth of this argument. Here we have Bokovoy, who is a young, rising star, and Brant Gardner, who is well-respected but not exactly part of the Mopologetic/Skinny-L Cabal, and their behavior is utterly respectful, gentlemanly, scholarly, and professional. Then you have Peterson and Hamblin, barging in to make dumb jokes and to interrupt the flow of scholarly discourse. While it would be easy to dismiss their behavior and simple tomfoolery and locker-room hijinks, the truth seems to be that "acrostics" and "personal viciousness" are the types of things that these guys prefer.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Glad to see DCP has time to post! Could one of you lurkers from the MAD/MD&D board kindly forward him this thread?
_Simon Belmont

Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _Simon Belmont »

C'mon, Scratch. That Dr. Peterson quote was obviously said in jest and in a sarcastic manner. Your thread title is meant to lead readers to believe that Dr. Peterson actually wants more "interpersonal viciousness."
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Simon Belmont wrote:C'mon, Scratch. That Dr. Peterson quote was obviously said in jest and in a sarcastic manner. Your thread title is meant to lead readers to believe that Dr. Peterson actually wants more "interpersonal viciousness."


You're right, Simon (sort of). It was sarcastic, and its presence in that particular thread was remarkable. What was the point of it? I read it as one of those jokes that's actually true, but the joke teller thinks that by making a joke out of it, the forcefulness of the truth is undercut somehow. It's like a hideously ugly person saying, "Ha, ha. What the world needs is more butt-ugly people. Oh, and more disfigurement, too."
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Blixa
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _Blixa »

The old "But I was making a joke, ain't you got a sense of humor?" ploy. It allows for speaking out of both sides of the mouth at the same time.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_stemelbow
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _stemelbow »

That is a good thread. I remember spotting it yesterday. And I do think the posts by Dr. P and H are funny. You guys are just plain silly to take their contributions as anything other than harmless jokes, but I guess its par for the course huh?
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Themis
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _Themis »

stemelbow wrote:That is a good thread. I remember spotting it yesterday. And I do think the posts by Dr. P and H are funny. You guys are just plain silly to take their contributions as anything other than harmless jokes, but I guess its par for the course huh?


I haven't read the whole thread but I found it interesting that some do not like it when people like Brant try and take away what some consider there best evidences for the Book of Mormon.
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_The Nehor
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _The Nehor »

About as sarcastic as:

Image
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

stemelbow wrote:That is a good thread. I remember spotting it yesterday. And I do think the posts by Dr. P and H are funny. You guys are just plain silly to take their contributions as anything other than harmless jokes, but I guess its par for the course huh?


How do you interpret the "jokes," stem? I.e., what is it that you find "funny" about a call for "more interpersonal viciousness"? I'm genuinely curious about your analysis of this.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_moksha
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Re: DCP Calls for More "Interpersonal Viciousness"

Post by _moksha »

You guys are too harsh. Need to put yourselves in the other guy's wingtips. Try imagining this: In an educational debate class you were assigned the topic of advocating for a flat earth and were told to defend the premise that such a earth exists. Bet you would err on the side of humor and challenging the integrity of the other debate team, rather that presenting verified photos of a flat earth from space.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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