Unrighteous Feelings and Emotions

[_Jason Bourne]

Just me

I wonder if your local leaders are out of touch. If they promoted this subject line for talks I think they are. The Church in general I think is less and less stating that depression and the emotions that lead to it are evil inspired. They may be tough on anger. But other things such as discouragement, despair, hopelessness I think are recognized as just emotions that when excessive can lead to problems in life. Alexander Morrison, a GA wrote this book in 2003:

http://www.amazon.com/Valley-Sorrow-Lay ... 1590380878

Anyway I know there is this theme that a TBM will just be happy, happy, happy.

When I was suffering from severe depression and finally found a very good non LDS therapist I learned that emotions just are. Anger for example is a cause of much of many peoples depression, especially the religious, because we do not know how to deal with it effectively. When we do we can move from anger to compassion towards those we are angry at very quickly.

Any way this is a good topic.

[_Jason Bourne]

Denying the full range of human emotions is denying our very humanity...our very soul. The core of what makes us human! To heap guilt on top of some of the more difficult human emotions is disgusting and irresponsible.

Indeed it does. The God that is preached in my church recognizes this.

I do not think the LDS Church denies the full range of emotions. It does teach us to control our emotions and to not act on ones that can lead us to sins. For example uncontrolled anger can lead to murder.

I have not ever met a single human being who could go through life feeling nothing but a fulness of joy and happiness every second of every day.

me neither. That's life.[/quote]

Again, this exemplifies what some of us find so toxic about Mormonism.

If Mormonism really taught that we should go through life living every second with joy and happiness you might have another club in your things you find toxic about Mormonism. Since it does not teach this you might want to toss this one out.

Not much of what you described here is preached in a Christian church.

Oh Bull S..t! I have many Catholic friends who tell me all about good old Catholic guilt. I once went to to a funeral for a child no less that the preacher used as a opportunity for an alter call. After affirming that the child, who died at 3, was in heaven ( how did he decide to accept Christ) he went on to tell us how awful our state was and that we had best come up and accept Jesus then and now we would not see this baby again and all be in hell. And I can tall you there was plenty of guilt and condemnation for what we are as humans. Maybe the place you worship is better than other but Christianity uses and has used shame and guilt for what we are to motivate us to repent for 2000 years.


Now, after some leave the lds church, they think that any Chrisian church will be the same. Perhaps this is why I'm so adamant that Ldsism is not Christian, so that when one leaves they might be open to a different, better expression of who God is.

[_Jason Bourne]

Hoops

Regarding your dialogue with Beefcalf, do you believe in a literal Adam and Eve and fall. I

Also if there is no literal Adam, Eve and Fall what implications does this have for the Christian message and our need for a Savior. If you want we can examine on another thread.

[_just me]

Ugh, I don't know what to say.

This was a sacrament meeting talk given by a stake rep and the topic was chosen by the SP. I think the actual topic was cultivating Christ-like attributes. During this particular talk, though, several disturbing statements were made about 1) hopelessness and despair being tools of the devil and having no place in our lives. 2) Anger, lust and something else being unrighteous emotions.

There were other things I disliked about the talk that I haven't even mentioned here because I really just wanted to focus on this particular issue. This issue is important because there are lots of little statements made at church and in manuals that lead a Mormon to feel guilty having normal emotions.

Like Jason Bourne said, as Mormons we are taught to CONTROL our emotions...Heck, ,we are supposed to control our emotions, thoughts, words, actions...even our bodies. It is all about control. Now, pointing out that it isn't healthy to suppress emotions should not be confused as me saying we should just have no self control. Those are like opposite sides of the spectrum....I'm talking about the whole range in between the extremes. And I know that other Christian churches teach about control, too.

The speaker said that anger is an unrighteous emotion. I grew up believing that was true. I *know* I got that idea from Mormonism.

It would be so awesome if the church would teach people tools in coping with anger rather than just telling them it is wicked and bad to feel anger. I would seriously enjoy going to a class like that.

Here, have some entertainment: Turn it Off!

[_stemelbow]

I certainly am not argueing that anger or hopelessness should be they "key" to our lives or even a major part of them. I am just saying that they should not be suppressed and denied and pretend we don't feel them. They usually need to be acknowledged and worked through so we can heal. Anger is a stage of the mourning process....you want to work through that anger not stuff it down and not stay stuck in it.

What is the "mourning process"? Particularly what are these stages you speak of?

I've even started at least one thread asking what Mormon's mean by this happiness that suppposedly they have access to that nobody else does. Nobody can answer. I've seen no evidence that Mormon's have a special joy or happiness that is not accessible to every other human on the planet. So, yeah, the whole "we have lasting joy and happiness" mantra becomes pretty meaningless.

I agree that everyone has access to lasting joy and happiness. That of course does not mean some people are happier because they are LDS. then again, it certainly can't mean some LDS people are happier as LDS than otherwise. I certainly do not advocate the idea that the Church is for everyone.

[_why me]

Look, I appreciate the fact that you have made it your duty to attempt to level the playing field here, and defend the Church. But, I think that in the process, you are seeing things in people that are not necessarily there. You're also not giving those of us who do devote a large portion of our time to the LDS Church, or, for that matter, those of us who did devote a serious portion of time to the LDS Church for a number of years, due diligence.

.

I have no idea where people got the notion that I never attend church. This is not true at all. I do attend church depending on where I am at that moment. So, I have been around Mormons since 1974 which is quite a long time. And what I see are people who are quite different from each other. I also see disagreements in how to do life among the Mormons. There is the taliban faction and then there is the normal member faction. But no two Mormons are alike.

Now with Just Me, I took issue with her negativisms with the speaker. For me, the speaker was refering to those emotions which we all experience at points in our lives: hopelessness and dispair. No one is immune to these emotions. My understanding from her OP was that the speaker was encouraging the members to deal with these emotions for what they are: of the devil. I did not get the feeling that people should not take pills to deal with these emotions. That would be a big cake to eat. We have doctors for such things and I am sure that members would encourage member friends to see a doctor if these emotions persist to have a negative impact of life.

[_just me]

I was thinking about this topic after posting it...while on my walk.

I found myself remembering my miscarriages. I remember my dad telling me not to be upset because it was natural. I also remember lots of LDS friends and family telling me that it was ok because it was "God's will" and that I would get pregnant in "his time."

These types of things are damaging and harmful. Why the flip couldn't people just tell me they were sorry and give me a hug and STFU? Why did they all seem to think that it was wrong for me to mourn or be upset by these incredibly traumatic losses?

I think we do this with other things, too. We teach that we all accepted our lot in life before we came...therefore, we aren't supposed to complain or be upset if our life is crappy. We agreed and should just be thankful we got to come to earth at all.

These attitudes are unhealthy and unhelpful.

[_Jason Bourne]

Every emotion is healthy, some emotions in excess are probably not. All I know is the day I stopped taking advice from the pulpit was the day I became much happier.

H.

Ohhhh yea!! I so agree.

[_Yoda]

During this particular talk, though, several disturbing statements were made about 1) hopelessness and despair being tools of the devil and having no place in our lives.

And herein lies the problem. Inept coping with hopelessness and despair can be thought of as "tools of the devil". For example, if one is feeling hopeless and despondent, and turns to drugs or alcohol as a numbing mechanism, that action could be seen as a "devil's tool".

I agree that there needs to be more focus on positive coping mechanisms for feelings of sadness, despair, feeling overwhelmed.

It sounds like the talk could have possibly just been worded poorly...which is, frankly, how a lot of this miscommunication starts.

What is the "mourning process"? Particularly what are these stages you speak of?

Just Me can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that she is referring to various stages which occur in grieving or mourning a loss. Any time there is a major loss in your life, there is a series of steps that everyone goes through as part of a natural cycle of emotions.

1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

2. PAIN & GUILT-
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.

You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.

You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

7 Stages of Grief...

5. THE UPWARD TURN-
As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.

The example I gave above is specifically referring to a death, but it can apply to the loss of a job as well.

http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-sta ... grief.html

[_just me]

Liz, yes, thank you for posting the stages of grief here. That is what I was referring to.