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I'm speaking of course of the common understanding of the word cynicism, not the Greek school of philosophy that probably influenced the teachings of Jesus.

Believers often speak of science and/or atheism as being "cynical." Here's a definition that I think works pretty well:

An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others


Nothing could be farther from the truth. But implicit in this accusation is the assumption that the gods and magic of the believers are a net positive in the first place. This assumption doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Besides being realists, atheists are also optimists. It is an optimistic view to assume that the capricious, jealous, unjust, irrational, unintelligent and bloodthirsty God worshiped by most of our fellows is a fiction. Imagine how horrible that would be if such an enfant terrible were real? The one who killed a man for trying to help steady the ark? Who struck Onan dead for pulling out? Who killed a couple for holding back some personal property from Peter? Who commanded the murder of countless infants and the rape of countless children? Who committed third party rape by forcing Joseph to have sex with those girls?

And imagine if the magical world view espoused by the scriptures were real! Nothing would work. Science couldn't make any predictions or get repeatable results, because of all the meddling from higher (and lower) powers. We'd still by riding in buggies (whether or not pulled by tapirs).

No, it's really Christianity and its bastard child Mormonism that are cynical philosophies. I'm an optimist. There is no god - thank god for that!

But implicit in this accusation is the assumption that the gods and magic of the believers are a net positive in the first place.

Of course it is. Have you considered what the world would be like were it not for Christian belief?

Besides being realists, atheists are also optimists. It is an optimistic view to assume that the capricious, jealous, unjust, irrational, unintelligent and bloodthirsty God worshiped by most of our fellows is a fiction.

I don't know anyone who worships this being. Do you have any evidence to support this?

Imagine how horrible that would be if such an enfant terrible were real? The one who killed a man for trying to help steady the ark? Who struck Onan dead for pulling out? Who killed a couple for holding back some personal property from Peter?

You have a lot to establish before you can logically make these pronouncements. Let's see you do it.

And imagine if the magical world view espoused by the scriptures were real! Nothing would work. Science couldn't make any predictions or get repeatable results, because of all the meddling from higher (and lower) powers. We'd still by riding in buggies (whether or not pulled by tapirs).

You might be. I'll ride in my car thanks.

No, it's really Christianity and its bastard child Mormonism that are cynical philosophies. I'm an optimist. There is no god - thank god for that!

Irrelevant.

Hey Buffalo,

I think people mistakenly think atheism is cynical because many atheists are cynical,or at least come off that way.

Hoops wrote:Of course it is. Have you considered what the world would be like were it not for Christian belief?

A little better. We'd probably be pagans, and a little less judgmental. The dark ages never would have happened.

Besides being realists, atheists are also optimists. It is an optimistic view to assume that the capricious, jealous, unjust, irrational, unintelligent and bloodthirsty God worshiped by most of our fellows is a fiction.

Hoops wrote:I don't know anyone who worships this being. Do you have any evidence to support this?

Imagine how horrible that would be if such an enfant terrible were real? The one who killed a man for trying to help steady the ark? Who struck Onan dead for pulling out? Who killed a couple for holding back some personal property from Peter?

You have a lot to establish before you can logically make these pronouncements. Let's see you do it.

These are well-known Bible stories. Are you telling me you're unfamiliar with them?

And imagine if the magical world view espoused by the scriptures were real! Nothing would work. Science couldn't make any predictions or get repeatable results, because of all the meddling from higher (and lower) powers. We'd still by riding in buggies (whether or not pulled by tapirs).

Hoops wrote:You might be. I'll ride in my car thanks.

You wouldn't if there were really a god.

No, it's really Christianity and its bastard child Mormonism that are cynical philosophies. I'm an optimist. There is no god - thank god for that!

Irrelevant.

stemelbow wrote:Hey Buffalo,

I think people mistakenly think atheism is cynical because many atheists are cynical,or at least come off that way.

Living with all these cynical believers is enough to turn anyone cynical!

Buffalo wrote:Living with all these cynical believers is enough to turn anyone cynical!

Hey that's my excuse! Ah well...I guess even we can have something in common.

I always forget the unique situation that I’ve grown up in, where I’ve never really had a strong negative experience with any sort of organized religion. I’ve never had to make really tough choices about leaving a group that constituted a large part of my life. From what I’ve encountered, most other atheists have exit stories and some painful memories attached to organized religion of some sort.

A little better. We'd probably be pagans, and a little less judgmental. The dark ages never would have happened.

Baloney. You'd probably still own slaves.

These are well-known Bible stories. Are you telling me you're unfamiliar with them?

And your commentary is simplistic and childish.

You wouldn't if there were really a god.

of course there would. Christians invented science.

Buffalo wrote:There is no god...

Where did organic molecules originate in early earth's history? There are only two options.

Terrestrial origins.

Extraterrestrial origins.

Which is it? And how did these molecules come to be? Is there any element of faith involved in believing that organic molecules originated through abiogenesis?

Regards,
MG

mentalgymnast wrote:Where did organic molecules originate in early earth's history?

Do you suppose not knowing the answer to this question justifies believing that a supernatural being did it?