DiscussMormonism.com

I just discovered a website that is at once insightful and disheartening. While I'm sure we're all aware of things like Confirmation Bias, this site and accompanyting book, You Are Not So Smart is yet another reminder that I'm an inmate in the assylum just like the rest of humanity.

I'm also over half way through called Brain Bugs and just finished a chapter about propoganda. I love the idea of discovering truth, and science may very well be the best tool for that, but it's just not very convincing to the masses. Worse, sometimes it's hard to determine what is authentic science and what is a hoax. I used to be pretty sure about AGW, or about the effects of taxes, but I'm starting to have my doubts. The thing that's most frustrating in trying to ascertain the truth is that I'm not sure I can trust anyone--we all have these "brain bugs."

While I'm frustrated at the bugs I view in my friends and family, I wonder just how bad or obvious are my own blind spots? I believe I am far more gullible or persuadable than I should be.

Along the lines of opinions and church, I wasn't happy with a talk last week in Sacrament Meeting where the speaker went on a tirade about the evils of a government welfare program. He spoke about how it creates dependent people who never learn to work. While I tend to agree that the current welfare system isn't great, I disagreed with his description of how it actually works. The people I know of on welfare are complaining about how hard it is 1) to get help 2) to get back on their feet. I haven't seen any indication that welfare makes their life easy. If anything, welfare is a failure because it is sufficient to help people get self-sufficient and not because it makes them lazy.

I mention the talk, because I often feel that one side of a controversal issue--the conservative side--is often tolerated from the pulpit while the other is not. However, one of the things I enjoyed most about the old fariboards (and current mormondialogue boards) is that I see Mormons of all stripes. That was an incredible breath of fresh air to me. I don't want to be liberal or conservative per se. I just want to understand what's happening. But now, after these books on human biases I wonder if that's even possible. Is it a futile endeavor? Do normal people even try to recognize and overcome their internal biases?

My quest to try understanding started as a missionary. Why didn't people see what was so plain to me? How could I help them understand?

What continues to be amazing to me is how often these flaws that are persistant in all humans, yet most humans will say "not me."

I'm absolutely fascinated by the clan behaviors of humans. When most human behaviors are viewed in a clan mentality, they make much more sense. And, again, unfortunately most humans will scoff at the idea that THEY are resorting to primal, clan-like behaviors.

asbestosman wrote:I just want to understand what's happening. But now, after these books on human biases I wonder if that's even possible. Is it a futile endeavor? Do normal people even try to recognize and overcome their internal biases?

People do all the time. I am sure you probably have heard many stories that may not come to mind right now. I'm not saying it is easy.

My quest to try understanding started as a missionary. Why didn't people see what was so plain to me? How could I help them understand?

I thought the same thing. Now I realize I was just as lacking in understanding as I viewed all those poor souls without the LDS religion.

a question might be who profits.

Scottie wrote:What continues to be amazing to me is how often these flaws that are persistant in all humans, yet most humans will say "not me."

I'm absolutely fascinated by the clan behaviors of humans. When most human behaviors are viewed in a clan mentality, they make much more sense. And, again, unfortunately most humans will scoff at the idea that THEY are resorting to primal, clan-like behaviors.

Some embrace it:

Smythers: Market research shows people see you as something of an ogre.

Burns: I oughta club them and eat their bones.

Thanks for sharing the link, Asbman. I hadn't seen it before and am enjoying reading it.

I think this sentence you shared is worth revisiting:

While I'm frustrated at the bugs I view in my friends and family, I wonder just how bad or obvious are my own blind spots? I believe I am far more gullible or persuadable than I should be.

I've had similar feelings myself, to varying degree, and they evolve over time. Along the lines of how to make use of this insight, and more troubling to me, is that it isn't enough to use this sense (I say sense as opposed to knowledge for intrinsic reasons) to be less driven by certitude. The reality is, no one takes the weather from an uncertain weatherman. It has direct, self-reinforcing, and generally divisive consequences in a group's dynamics to be moderate. That is, I think, unless moderation becomes a valued cultural norm.

Anyway, keep sharing your sources and thoughts.

Interesting. So The Man With No Mask is everyone's enemy. And The Man With No Group must be wrong. Therefore you cannot be numbered in the group with Christ in God unless and until you put off the natural man, become everyone's enemy and dead to the world. Figures.

asbestosman wrote:Along the lines of opinions and church, I wasn't happy with a talk last week in Sacrament Meeting where the speaker went on a tirade about the evils of a government welfare program. He spoke about how it creates dependent people who never learn to work.

I understand where the speaker is coming from. I mean, what's with the aged not getting any younger or the disabled not growing a new pair of limbs? Why couldn't they follow the great conservative examples of Forrest Gump or Sarah Palin and persevere despite great disabilities?

moksha wrote:or Sarah Palin and persevere despite great disabilities?

Hmmm. You've got good a point there.

I also have to keep remembering that King Benjamin's sermon about helping the poor doesn't apply to certain people.

A very helpful little thread. ITs no wonder there's such a black and white type of thinking here. Some seem to go on and on about how LDS people are bad about this or that...seeming to miss the boat half the time, while not realizing the very hypocrisy that is exposed.

I couldn't help but see the immense hate for MDD and many LDS by posters here when I read:

you spend a lot of time a lot of time talking about how dumb and uncouth the other side is. You too can become preoccupied with defining the essence of your enemies. You too need the other side to be inferior, so you define them as such. You start to believe your persona is actually your identity, and the identity of your enemy is actually their persona. You see yourself in a game of self-deluded poker and assume you are impossible to read while everyone else has obvious tells.

Then when I head over to MDD, while I see some basis for complaint, I'm often confused why so many here are so prone to show such anymosity for others there. The opposite is true too, of course.

As I said, no wonder...