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Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:19 am**

Monsons OpEd piece in the Washington Post is nothing like what I've seen from my local churches you can read it here:

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:41 am**

What is the common tone for messages from your local churches? Is it like that of a common funeral?

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:59 am**

It's a call for you to repent. Now that you've read it, this counts as your one chance to inherit the Celestial glory...
;)

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:22 am**

There was no berating. This read more like a request for people to remember God without a major tragedy needing to occur.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:41 am**

I don’t see any “berating” in the article, any more than I see “berating” in this from Christopher Hitchens: Simply Evil:

Let this and other struggles temper and strengthen us for future battles where it will be necessary to repudiate the big lie.

Tragedy does have a way of “tempering” and humbling us. 9/11 humbled America, and perhaps made it realise that it’s not invulnerable to attack, or even, unthinkably, defeat. It is not outside forces which will defeat America, but “inner conflict”, and its loss of identity.

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

America is failing, and it’s not failing because of outside attack, but because of internal division. The “Christian Right” on the one hand, and the growth of political gain, financial corruption, greed, and the corruptions of capitalism, the idea that “every man prospers according to his genius”, and the neglect of the deserving poor and needy, on the other hand.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. (Mormon 8)

6 And it came to pass in the eighth year of the reign of the judges, that the people of the church began to wax proud, because of their exceeding riches, and their fine silks, and their fine-twined linen, and because of their many flocks and herds, and their gold and their silver, and all manner of precious things, which they had obtained by their industry; and in all these things were they lifted up in the pride of their eyes, for they began to wear very costly apparel.
7 Now this was the cause of much affliction to Alma, yea, and to many of the people whom Alma had consecrated to be teachers, and priests, and elders over the church; yea, many of them were sorely grieved for the wickedness which they saw had begun to be among their people.
8 For they saw and beheld with great sorrow that the people of the church began to be lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and to set their hearts upon riches and upon the vain things of the world, that they began to be scornful, one towards another, and they began to persecute those that did not believe according to their own will and pleasure.
9 And thus, in this eighth year of the reign of the judges, there began to be great contentions among the people of the church; yea, there were envyings, and strife, and malice, and persecutions, and pride, even to exceed the pride of those who did not belong to the church of God……
12 Yea, he saw great inequality among the people, some lifting themselves up with their pride, despising others, turning their backs upon the needy and the naked and those who were hungry, and those who were athirst, and those who were sick and afflicted. (Alma 4)

(My Emphasis)

I am not sure how much longer “this nation shall endure”.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:20 am**

RayAgostini wrote:
...

I am not sure how much longer “this nation shall endure”.

As Adam Smith wrote:

"Be assured, my young friend, there is a great deal of ruin in a nation".

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:29 am**

café crema wrote:Monsons OpEd piece in the Washington Post is nothing like what I've seen from my local churches you can read it here:

I'm a little surprised by the generic quality of the piece. There isn't a hint of Mormonism in it. A Mormon reading it will find it totally familiar, reflecting the Book of Mormon teachings and the constant periods of faith and falling from faith, but a nonMormon will find nothing informative about Mormonism. It seems carefully designed to do exactly that, in fact, INHO.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:46 am**

I think the thread heading is misleading - I don't see any 'berating' of Americans.

What I do see is a meloncholy towards the lack of people 'coming unto Christ' (attending Church).

I also think it's noteworthy that this article from the Mormon Prophet is a rare piece. Virtually all public pronouncements are made by the PR office. The one time the Prophet speaks publically to the entire world and this is what God wants him to say. No dire warnings, No prophecy about what will happen if you don't change your ways, No testimony, No strength of feeling, Very little of anything except about how sad it is that peoples religious attention has dwindled over the years since 9/11.

It's powder puff, not awe inspiring - a missed opportunity.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:29 pm**

It is constancy that God would have from us. Tragedies are not merely opportunities to give Him a fleeting thought, or for momentary insight to His plan for our happiness. Destruction allows us to rebuild our lives in the way He teaches us, and to become something different than we were. We can make Him the center of our thoughts and His Son, Jesus Christ, the pattern for our behavior. We may not only find faith in God in our sorrow. We may also become faithful to Him in times of calm.

Nothing like embracing tragedy and calling it a lesson from god.

The tone of that thing made it sound like he misses the good old days when people were scared shitless and turning to religion to calm themselves. I'm sure there was quite a financial spike for churches during that time. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's disappointed the earthquake last month wasn't a bigger disaster. "That'd get 'em in the pews!"

The fact that many people don't find the need for religion when they're content should tell us something about its utility. Religion is like war: awful for humanity, but great for the bottom line. I suppose that's why so many wars are over religion.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:42 pm**

The fact that many people don't find the need for religion when they're content should tell us something about its utility.

Or the many people.

Religion is like war: awful for humanity,

Completely and utterly ignorant.

I suppose that's why so many wars are over religion.

Now explain why so many are fought where religion is absent.

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