Here's something to discuss...

[_stemelbow]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/5258 ... s.html.csp

So this guy was on a mission with me. I really didn't know him too well, but I got the feeling that he was kinda creepy and arrogant. it might be a little unfair to categorize him as such since I didn't know him, and those were mostly some pretty shallow impressions. But there it is.

On top of that, this is gossipy now, I have friends who knew of the guy in St. George. Many of these didn't care for the guy. I won't go into too many details, but apparently he pretty hopenly hit on other gals, gave them presents and money, was slimey in business (uh..obviously) and well I won't say te rest.

the other thing is, he offered his own resources to help in Haiti. he helped search for "the bad guy" who shot another missionary buddy of mine in the Moab-area. Even in the article it says he's known for philanthropic work.

This is the easy way to see it: he is so self-involved he thinks by being giving he's making himself look good to others. Its really all about him.

Could it be that he ran a legitimate business, is very giving and charitable and sweet, but is just being picked on for some reason or another? Sounds far-fetched. Sounds more like he took advantage of people to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, justified that by giving occasionally and trying to hide in technical readings of law?

This story may only mean something to me, i suppose.

[_bcspace]

Businesses that are "Make money schemes" and "Stay healthy schemes" are all I need to know. Scam artist. There was a huge real estate scam going on in Dallas in the 80's and some in our Stake took extended year long vacations to Europe till it all blew over; including our Young Men's Pres. who was very well-to-do.

I feel sorry for returned missionaries who get involved in direct sales because of their "door to door" expertise. Most are used and abused. Some join the scam. Only a very few legitimately make money imho. The interesting thing is that sales is where it's at. A company is nothing unless it can sell it's product or service.

[_Buffalo]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/52583579-79/johnson-bail-fraud-business.html.csp

So this guy was on a mission with me. I really didn't know him too well, but I got the feeling that he was kinda creepy and arrogant. it might be a little unfair to categorize him as such since I didn't know him, and those were mostly some pretty shallow impressions. But there it is.

On top of that, this is gossipy now, I have friends who knew of the guy in St. George. Many of these didn't care for the guy. I won't go into too many details, but apparently he pretty hopenly hit on other gals, gave them presents and money, was slimey in business (uh..obviously) and well I won't say te rest.

the other thing is, he offered his own resources to help in Haiti. he helped search for "the bad guy" who shot another missionary buddy of mine in the Moab-area. Even in the article it says he's known for philanthropic work.

This is the easy way to see it: he is so self-involved he thinks by being giving he's making himself look good to others. Its really all about him.

Could it be that he ran a legitimate business, is very giving and charitable and sweet, but is just being picked on for some reason or another? Sounds far-fetched. Sounds more like he took advantage of people to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, justified that by giving occasionally and trying to hide in technical readings of law?

This story may only mean something to me, i suppose.

When we try to make these sort of points about Joseph Smith, you don't seem to be able to think this way. Like you've got some sort of mindblock about the subject.

[_stemelbow]

When we try to make these sort of points about Joseph Smith, you don't seem to be able to think this way. Like you've got some sort of mindblock about the subject.

Can you be more specific and descriptive? I have no idea what your talking about.

[_Buffalo]

When we try to make these sort of points about Joseph Smith, you don't seem to be able to think this way. Like you've got some sort of mindblock about the subject.

Can you be more specific and descriptive? I have no idea what your talking about.

When we talk about Joseph taking advantage of his followers in order to gain sexual access to women and money. When we talk about anything Joseph did that looks shady. In that context, you look past what "seems likely" and latch on what is faith promoting.

[_stemelbow]

When we talk about Joseph taking advantage of his followers in order to gain sexual access to women and money.

So where has this been talked about? And where have I replied as you suggest?

When we talk about anything Joseph did that looks shady. In that context, you look past what "seems likely" and latch on what is faith promoting.

Nice try, Buffalo. I'm asking for something specific, not just some cursory comparison here.

While this guy may come as Joseph Smith to you, I don't see the connection.

[_Buffalo]

When we talk about Joseph taking advantage of his followers in order to gain sexual access to women and money.

So where has this been talked about? And where have I replied as you suggest?

When we talk about anything Joseph did that looks shady. In that context, you look past what "seems likely" and latch on what is faith promoting.

Nice try, Buffalo. I'm asking for something specific, not just some cursory comparison here.

While this guy may come as Joseph Smith to you, I don't see the connection.

Don't worry, Stem, I don't expect you to see it. I had the same mental block at one point too. Until you're able to break through it, you'll continue to be incapable of judging Joseph Smith's behavior by the same standard you'd judge anyone else's.

[_just me]

This is really a strange thread to read.

I instantly saw the Joseph Smith connection and actually was surprised to see Stem post something like that. Wow.

[_Themis]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/52583579-79/johnson-bail-fraud-business.html.csp

So this guy was on a mission with me. I really didn't know him too well, but I got the feeling that he was kinda creepy and arrogant. it might be a little unfair to categorize him as such since I didn't know him, and those were mostly some pretty shallow impressions. But there it is.

On top of that, this is gossipy now, I have friends who knew of the guy in St. George. Many of these didn't care for the guy. I won't go into too many details, but apparently he pretty hopenly hit on other gals, gave them presents and money, was slimey in business (uh..obviously) and well I won't say te rest.

the other thing is, he offered his own resources to help in Haiti. he helped search for "the bad guy" who shot another missionary buddy of mine in the Moab-area. Even in the article it says he's known for philanthropic work.

This is the easy way to see it: he is so self-involved he thinks by being giving he's making himself look good to others. Its really all about him.

Could it be that he ran a legitimate business, is very giving and charitable and sweet, but is just being picked on for some reason or another? Sounds far-fetched. Sounds more like he took advantage of people to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, justified that by giving occasionally and trying to hide in technical readings of law?

This story may only mean something to me, i suppose.

You seem to be demonstrating black and white thinking. One sentence suggests surprise that he is doing philanthropic work, and then suggest maybe he is doing it for selfish reasons. You also suggest maybe he is all good and is maybe just being picked on. People are not really all bad or good. He may well care for others in some ways and be very selfish and arrogant in others ways. This is how we all are in differing degrees. I wonder if this may be part of your problem when viewing Joseph's behavior as well.