From MDD: Does God Speak Through LDS Prophets and Apostles?

[_Nightlion]

Posted An hour ago {on the 'other' board}
I'll offer another problem:

Prayer won't work to answer which doctrines are of God and which ones are not, either. God's revelations to you as an individual (who is not a GA) can NOT confirm that the words of the prophets are correct since to do so would be to receive revelation that is for the whole Church which (if we believe you only receive revelation to those under your authority) is against the commonly stated 'rules'.

I told you so.
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20165
But first there is more so let me go get that too. Hold on.......

Posted 21 minutes ago (on MDD)
(to follow up on my previous post, here is a better version of the argument)

P1. You can't receive revelation the content of which is binding upon the whole Church.
P2. Asking whether the truth value of a revelation given by the GAs (or any authority higher than you are, also) is "true" or "false" is to ask for information the result of which (that is, whether it is "true" or "false") will be binding upon the whole Church.
C: You can't receive revelation the content of which is whether a given revelation given by the GAs is "true" or "false".

I said in my thread over a week ago:

My thesis here is that the Mormons fundamentally changed the Church in the 1853-5 reformation that instituted today's FOLLOW THE PROPHET mandate. Before this time, of necessity, the Church relied upon the Lord to direct HIS Church. It was implicit that God led his own Church. The power of his Spirit was trusted to lead out.

I am not talking about every person being worthy to receive revelation pertaining to their calling and responsibility. That is patently stupid. God is not constrained in this manner. So if you are stuck in teaching the 5 year-old children you will never learn anything greater than what can be given to a little child? Stupid.

A boss is only a boss. He gets to tell people what to do, where to go, when to do it. When is it that the BOSS is the only one to know? Usually the bosses are the ones who know the least. That is why they are made the boss to get their incompetence out of the way so that those who really know what they are doing can get the job done.

Just because you know something does not make you the boss of anyone. Of course. But there is nothing preventing everyone from knowing as much as they want to know.

Correct me if you can but I do not think that Johnny Rules here thinks that it is in any way possible to receive a revelation higher than your pay grade. Man, turnip cake anyone?
Questions as to how and why and were the LDS got so off-track and apostate?

[_sunstoned]

The GAs put themselves up on pedestals. They are above any type of controversy. The members allow this to happen. They imply (but never come right out and say) that they speak for God. It has gone so far that Oaks can blatantly say that it is wrong to criticize a leader, even if the leader is wrong, and the members gobble it up and don’t even flinch. This is something right out of George Orwell.

Of course the track record of the big 15 does not support any of this. Over the years GAs have preached some pretty stupid stuff. Many things that we roll our eyes at now were taken as scripture by the masses at the time.

[_Nightlion]

The GAs put themselves up on pedestals. They are above any type of controversy. The members allow this to happen. They imply (but never come right out and say) that they speak for God. It has gone so far that Oaks can blatantly say that it is wrong to criticize a leader, even if the leader is wrong, and the members gobble it up and don’t even flinch. This is something right out of George Orwell.

Of course the track record of the big 15 does not support any of this. Over the years GAs have preached some pretty stupid stuff. Many things that we roll our eyes at now were taken as scripture by the masses at the time.

Another interesting flip of the coin is that I now think that the LDS Church is most definately a cult of the personality of Follow The Prophet. It is not a cult of one guy's JIM JONESyness. It is a cult of the OFFICE, whomever it is. Christian EVs thought it a cult because Jesus for Mormons is a different Jesus than there's and I resented that so I tossed any consideration of an actual cult out with that bathwater. So its a Corporate Cult. How fascinating a sociological construct!
What a brilliant perpetual mesmerizer. It does horrific violence to the gospel of Jesus Christ by preventing it while making people think that they are all about it and THE BEST at it in all the world. What heady Rasputinism. Certainly Satan sits in the corporate heart. A corporate beast.