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about certain subjects. That's why they ignore certain teachings across almost all sects. Examples:

Luke 14:33
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

With the exception of certain monks living in caves, no one pays attention to this anymore. We want religion to make our lives better, not make them worse.

Matt 6: 1-4
1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

If the churches followed this one, you'd never see a press release about another charitable act again. But the fact is, we all give in order to feel good about ourselves and look good in front of our peers. And there's nothing wrong with that - it motivates people to do good.

Matthew 21:21-22
21Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive

You supposedly only need a mustard seed's worth of faith to move mountains, but no one tries it because even when they think they believe in miracles, they know deep down that God won't be moving any mountains for anyone. That sort of thing doesn't happen.

Matt. 8:21-22
21Another of the disciples said to him, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father."
22But Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."

Kind of a dick move, Jesus. The LDS church treats its missionaries in similar dickish fashion, but otherwise this is ignored.

(Matt: 23:9)
9And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

I knew one kind of crazy Jesus freak who did this, but pretty much everyone ignores this one.

(Luke 14:26)
26"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."

However you take this one, it's a malignant doctrine. The vast majority ignore it.

(Mark 10:5-9)
5But Jesus said to them, "For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
6But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.'
7'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,
8and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh.
9What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."

The Catholics are the only ones who take this seriously - protestant and Mormons like to pretend Jesus didn't mean it should apply to them. Because in the real world, sometimes the only answer is divorce.

Buffalo wrote: 3. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4. That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

These verses would make more sense if we changed 'alms' to 'palms.'

Buffalo wrote:(Luke 14:26)
26"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
However you take this one, it's a malignant doctrine. The vast majority ignore it.

Jesus was apparently unaware of the old "honor your parents" thing. I suppose he also forgot the golden rule at the moment he said this. Meh... pesky rules.

It's a good thing the Bible never contradicts itself, huh?

Buffalo wrote:...

Luke 14:33
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot
be my disciple.

This is a common teaching of "holy men" to their disciples throughout the
Eastern World. I ran into many variations of the teaching while living in
South Asia.

As applied, the doctrine does not always mean abandoning all worldly
possessions -- but, rather, looking at material things as a stewardship
and not for personal wealth, security, power, etc.

In a word -- forsaking attachments.

Whether the advice came from Jesus or not, I cannot say. My
conclusion is that the vast majority of biblical quotations attributed
to Jesus originated as teachings voiced by later followers who
never knew the man.

Materialistic people can never hope to understand non-materialistic
folks, who put a greater value on "spiritual" matters than the physical.

Of course we appear to be "full of crap," in our counsel -- to those who
have no appreciation of such teachings. (And the division grows even
greater when the original counsel is repeated, re-stated, and eventually
re-written by religionists).

UD

Buffalo wrote:

about certain subjects. That's why they ignore certain teachings across almost all sects. Examples:

With the exception of certain monks living in caves, no one pays attention to this anymore. We want religion to make our lives better, not make them worse.

We do? Who says?

But the fact is, we all give in order to feel good about ourselves

That's not a fact, that's your opinion. And a poorly thought out one at that.

and look good in front of our peers. And there's nothing wrong with that - it motivates people to do good.

Perhaps that was your motivation when you were religious, but it's not mine nor anyone of whom I could make a calculated guess.

You supposedly only need a mustard seed's worth of faith to move mountains, but no one tries it because even when they think they believe in miracles, they know deep down that God won't be moving any mountains for anyone. That sort of thing doesn't happen.

I know lot's of people who have tried it. And many believe it has occurred. Nonetheless, what does "believe in miracles" mean? What is your expecting? And why?

Kind of a dick move, Jesus. The LDS church treats its missionaries in similar dickish fashion, but otherwise this is ignored.

I suppose it would be for someone who believes this life is all there is.

I knew one kind of crazy Jesus freak who did this, but pretty much everyone ignores this one.

Your ignorance is astonishing.

However you take this one, it's a malignant doctrine. The vast majority ignore it.

And again here.

The Catholics are the only ones who take this seriously - protestant and Mormons like to pretend Jesus didn't mean it should apply to them. Because in the real world, sometimes the only answer is divorce.

Where to even begin here.

Hoops, I would actually enjoy reading a real response from you, as a literalist, on this topic. How do you personally live these words of Jesus? Do you understand and interpret them literally? Why or why not?

If you have the time, of course.

Uncle Dale wrote:
This is a common teaching of "holy men" to their disciples throughout the
Eastern World. I ran into many variations of the teaching while living in
South Asia.

As applied, the doctrine does not always mean abandoning all worldly
possessions -- but, rather, looking at material things as a stewardship
and not for personal wealth, security, power, etc.

In a word -- forsaking attachments.

If you really believed it, you'd live it instead of making excuses for why you're exempt. Thanks for demonstrating my point. :o

just me wrote:Hoops, I would actually enjoy reading a real response from you, as a literalist, on this topic.

I'd enjoy seeing a real response from Hoops on ANY topic, but I'm not holding my breath. Hoops doesn't do "real."

just me wrote:Hoops, I would actually enjoy reading a real response from you, as a literalist, on this topic. How do you personally live these words of Jesus? Do you understand and interpret them literally? Why or why not?

If you have the time, of course.

I'd love to. Gimme a sec', i'm supposed to be doing something else.

I'll get on the first one first.

Some Schmo wrote:

just me wrote:Hoops, I would actually enjoy reading a real response from you, as a literalist, on this topic.

I'd enjoy seeing a real response from Hoops on ANY topic, but I'm not holding my breath. Hoops doesn't do "real."

Yes, please don't hold your breath. That could cause real damage to your tiny little body.

Hoops wrote: Yes, please don't hold your breath. That could cause real damage to your tiny little body.

You seem to be obsessed with size. Overcompensating for something, are ya?