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Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:18 pm
by _Buffalo
http://seminary.LDS.org/manuals/doctrin ... 0-dc19.asp“We must remember that repentance is more than just saying, ‘I am sorry.’ It is more than tears in one’s eyes. It is more than a half a dozen prayers. Repentance means suffering. If a person hasn’t suffered, he hasn’t repented” ( The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 88, 99).
http://LDS.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... 7?lang=engD&C 19:16
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Biblical Jesus:
"Go and sin no more. Let not your heart be troubled."
SWK's Jesus:
"You haven't suffered enough. Torment yourself for a few more months and then maybe we'll talk."
Do you suppose Spencer W. Kimball is suffering in Spirit Prison even now for misleading generations of Latter-day Saints with false doctrine and malignant, abusive ideas?
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:28 pm
by _jon
Yeah, but at least he got the whole blacks turning white thing right...
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:43 pm
by _Buffalo
jon wrote:Yeah, but at least he got the whole blacks turning white thing right...
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:55 pm
by _jon
Buffalo wrote:jon wrote:Yeah, but at least he got the whole blacks turning white thing right...
Marie is ageing well...
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:16 pm
by _stemelbow
Buffalo wrote:http://seminary.LDS.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-resource-manual/dc-trm-2-1-40-dc19.asp
“We must remember that repentance is more than just saying, ‘I am sorry.’ It is more than tears in one’s eyes. It is more than a half a dozen prayers. Repentance means suffering. If a person hasn’t suffered, he hasn’t repented” ( The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 88, 99).
http://LDS.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... 7?lang=engD&C 19:16
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Biblical Jesus:
"Go and sin no more. Let not your heart be troubled."
SWK's Jesus:
"You haven't suffered enough. Torment yourself for a few more months and then maybe we'll talk."
Do you suppose Spencer W. Kimball is suffering in Spirit Prison even now for misleading generations of Latter-day Saints with false doctrine and malignant, abusive ideas?
Is it not suffering to feel remorseful? I don't think he meant anything other than we really need to feel that pain of remorse for a genuine repentance. Jesus says "go and sin no more" but that doesn't mean the person who He relieved of the sin did not have to go through a stage of remorse.
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:20 pm
by _Buffalo
stemelbow wrote:
Is it not suffering to feel remorseful? I don't think he meant anything other than we really need to feel that pain of remorse for a genuine repentance. Jesus says "go and sin no more" but that doesn't mean the person who He relieved of the sin did not have to go through a stage of remorse.
Kimball believed that we must literally suffer for our sins. It went beyond remorse, as you can see in his quote. You can't just be suffering enough to cry. More pain is needed.
Have you read the Miracle of Forgiveness?
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:21 pm
by _just me
The juxtoposition of these two quotes is truly jaw-dropping.
"Repentance means suffering. If a person hasn’t suffered, he hasn’t repented”
"For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;"
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:25 pm
by _stemelbow
Buffalo wrote:Kimball believed that we must literally suffer for our sins. It went beyond remorse, as you can see in his quote. You can't just be suffering enough to cry. More pain is needed.
Have you read the Miracle of Forgiveness?
He didn't say that. What suffering do you think he had in mind? Do you think he really meant something other than remorse? what suffering would that be?
Man, you're going to make me go look that up in context, aren't you?
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:31 pm
by _jon
stemelbow wrote:Buffalo wrote:Kimball believed that we must literally suffer for our sins. It went beyond remorse, as you can see in his quote. You can't just be suffering enough to cry. More pain is needed.
Have you read the Miracle of Forgiveness?
He didn't say that. What suffering do you think he had in mind? Do you think he really meant something other than remorse? what suffering would that be?
Man, you're going to make me go look that up in context, aren't you?
I think you'll find Buff very considerately posted a link in the OP so you can do just that.
Re: Spencer W. Kimball: Sadist, Self-Flagellator, Anti-Christ
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:49 pm
by _stemelbow
just me wrote:The juxtoposition of these two quotes is truly jaw-dropping.
"Repentance means suffering. If a person hasn’t suffered, he hasn’t repented”
"For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;"
To be fair, D&C is not suggesting that people who do something bad won't feel remorse, which if ya think about it is or can be suffering. it seems like two different types of suffering can be thought of here. Jesus suffered in a way we can't comprehend.