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Posted: **Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:10 pm**

http://www.atheist-experience.com/archi ... -03-06.mp3

The people at this show make a pretty good argument for why it is unreasonable to posit supernatural explanations for any event, even when the true causes are unknown.

In a nutshell: Suppose you have a friend. There is a hole the size of a swimming pool in her back yard, and the oak tree in her front yard is knocked down. Your friend tells you that a dragon did it. Is that a reasonable explanation?

They divide the universe into things that are known to exist, things that are not known to exist, and things that are known not to exist. The last two don't work as explanations for events with indeterminate causes, because nothing is known about them, and thus they have no explanatory power. If you have mysterious event X, positing Y as its cause when Y is not known to exist/undefined is not an explanation at all. Things that do not exist cannot be the cause of other things. A valid cause must exist. If the existence of something is not known, you can't call it existent yet. Our ability to gauge things that don't exist and things that we don't yet know exist is equal. You can't solve a mystery by appealing to something even more mysterious.

That's a very sloppy summary - I'd recommend listening to the first 15 minutes of the show (skip the first 5 minutes or so).

http://www.atheist-experience.com/archi ... -03-06.mp3

Posted: **Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:52 pm**

The problem theists have is that they interpret everyday, ordinary events as miraculous events from God.

"I couldn't find my car keys, and I prayed, and I found them!"

Small things, but an accumulation of them.

The events start getting bigger and bigger. "We didn't know how we were going to pay for milk, but we paid tithing anyways. A check came for just the exact amount for a gallon of milk!"

Then they start manufacturing blessings out of tragedy. "I prayed to know if I should move for this new job. The job laid me off in 2 months, but I KNOW God sent me here as a learning experience because I would have never learned this much by staying where I was at."

It doesn't take long before every event has some kind of supernatural hand in it. "I prayed for the cancer to go away, and I have so many other little experiences where God helped me, that I cannot think of any other explanation other than God helped me."

Posted: **Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:07 pm**

Scottie wrote:The problem theists have is that they interpret everyday, ordinary events as miraculous events from God.

"I couldn't find my car keys, and I prayed, and I found them!"

Small things, but an accumulation of them.

The events start getting bigger and bigger. "We didn't know how we were going to pay for milk, but we paid tithing anyways. A check came for just the exact amount for a gallon of milk!"

Then they start manufacturing blessings out of tragedy. "I prayed to know if I should move for this new job. The job laid me off in 2 months, but I KNOW God sent me here as a learning experience because I would have never learned this much by staying where I was at."

It doesn't take long before every event has some kind of supernatural hand in it. "I prayed for the cancer to go away, and I have so many other little experiences where God helped me, that I cannot think of any other explanation other than God helped me."

Oh yes, that's even more fallacious. It's not even something mysterious - it's everyday ordinary events with (usually) known, natural causes. This is known as magical thinking, and its irrational by definition.

Posted: **Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:30 pm**

Scottie wrote:The problem theists have is that they interpret everyday, ordinary events as miraculous events from God.

"I couldn't find my car keys, and I prayed, and I found them!"

Small things, but an accumulation of them.

The events start getting bigger and bigger. "We didn't know how we were going to pay for milk, but we paid tithing anyways. A check came for just the exact amount for a gallon of milk!"

Then they start manufacturing blessings out of tragedy. "I prayed to know if I should move for this new job. The job laid me off in 2 months, but I KNOW God sent me here as a learning experience because I would have never learned this much by staying where I was at."

It doesn't take long before every event has some kind of supernatural hand in it. "I prayed for the cancer to go away, and I have so many other little experiences where God helped me, that I cannot think of any other explanation other than God helped me."

Posted: **Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:14 am**

Why supernatural explanations aren't reasonable...

Find yourselves a dictionary and look up supernatural. If you don't get the answer there is something supernaturalwith with this topic.

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