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I'm afraid I made a nuisance of myself in high priest group yesterday.

The lesson was on the gathering of Israel.

With ten minutes to go, I just couldn't take any more of the redefinition of "scattered" to mean "gathered."

Mormons are not gathered--they are scattered. And yet the lesson (from the Gospel Principles Manual) assured all that Mormons are in fact currently "gathered."

Mormons gather by doing missionary work; they gather by doing temple work; they gather by going to church.

The time of gathering to a central location is past; today Korean Mormons gather to Korea, Swedish Mormons gather to Sweden, etc.

At ten to the hour, I raised my hand and observed that Mormons are not gathered; that doing missionary work is not gathering--it is converting; that doing temple work is not gathering--it is sealing; that attending church is not gathering--it is going to church.

I said that if that if everybody is now to "gather" where they already live, it is not "gathering," it is staying put.

I went on in response to some comments from class members, but will stop here to see if there is any interest or if this strikes a chord with anybody else.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

According to Old Testament imagery, the Lord's kingdom is supported by tent stakes, and those stake are where Israel gathers.

The Church's gathering doctrine has always been oriented to stakes. For a time the Church had stakes in Missouri, Illinois and Ohio; it was acceptable to gather there. Even the prophet Joseph Smith never moved to Missouri. When the Saints went west the stakes were pulled up and for a while there were only stakes in the Great Basin.

I take it that since you got your feelings hurt from being released as a GD teacher you've decided to take it out on the church with anonymous posts. Why bother even going? What a waste.

Unless your whole ward actually lives at the ward house, you could be said to gather for church every Sunday.

I know, this sort of trivially correct analogy plays havoc with more abstract meanings like "Gathering of Israel", but oh well.

Oh, I know. Not all of the House of Israel currently gathers on Sundays at Mormon wardhouses for church. The continued Gathering of the House of Israel is made more complete by doing the missionary work that will result in more potential House of Israel members knowing where to be on Sundays.

Then the gathering of Israel is actually just when Jews attend synagogue or get together for a game of golf? Golly, that's going to make the last days a whole lot easier!

■ “Now, we are concerned with the gathering of Israel. This gathering shall continue until the righteous are assembled in the congregations of the Saints in the nations of the world. This reminds us of the tenth article of faith , wherein the Prophet Joseph Smith said to his inquirer, ‘We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the new Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.’ . . .
From the LDS institute manual on the subject.
So Yahoo Bot is correct that Church now believes that 'gathering' means 'baptising'.

I wonder what Zion being built upon the American continent now means...

It strikes a cord with me since I have sat through that lesson twice and one of those times I had to teach it. The first time I sat through it I was visiting another ward and I asked the instructor whether we would still gather to Jackson County before the Second Coming. He became noticeably uncomfortable and said it doesn't matter because we will do whatever the President of the Church tells us to do. If he tells us to gather anywhere, anytime, we will. If he doesn't, then we won't.

When I taught the lesson, I asked someone to recite the article of faith that says we believe in the literal gathering of Israel. I made the point that although we are currently engaged in the "spiritual" gathering, i.e., missionary work, it must change to a literal gathering at some point or the article of faith wouldn't make sense. No one seemed to disagree with me.

I also read the D&C where the Lord commands the saints to gather in Jackson County Missouri. I said that we don't hear much about gathering to Missouri anymore, but that was the last time the Lord spoke about where we would gather and to my knowledge it hasn't been revoked. So, as things stand, we should be literally gathered to Jackson County, Missouri sometime before the Second Coming. A lot of people were furiously flipping through their scriptures (I'm not sure how to interpret that), but no one seemed to disagree with me.

The one thing that I didn't have the courage to teach is the real reason for the gathering of the lost tribes of Israel: because the God of the old testament promised Israel that it would inherit the promised land forever and the promise couldn't be fulfilled if the ten tribes were lost. The ancient prophets plugged this scriptural hole by saying that the ten tribes must be gathered and restored to their lands of inheritance so that the original promise would be fulfilled. I didn't think it would be wise to mention this.

Yahoo Bot wrote:The Church's gathering doctrine has always been oriented to stakes. For a time the Church had stakes in Missouri, Illinois and Ohio; it was acceptable to gather there. Even the prophet Joseph Smith never moved to Missouri. When the Saints went west the stakes were pulled up and for a while there were only stakes in the Great Basin.

Joseph Smith moved to Missouri (he needed a place to run to after the Kirtland Safety Society fiasco). That's how he ended up in Liberty Jail.

Oh yeah, one more issue that I found interesting is that the Book of Mormon doubles down on the gathering of Israel when Jesus states that many of the lost tribes also kept records like the Book of Mormon and they will be revealed at some time in the future. A class member chimed in that he was reading Bruce R. McConkie who said that the president of the church will translate those records and reveal them to the world. It was hard to keep from laughing at the thought of the president of the church actually revealing something.

jon wrote:I wonder what Zion being built upon the American continent now means...

City Creek Mall, perhaps?

Yahoo Bot wrote:The Church's gathering doctrine has always been oriented to stakes.

This is simply not true.

The Church's gathering doctrine was originally to Jackson County, Missouri, in order to build the City of Zion. (After a brief way station in Ohio.)

As I mentioned in class yesterday, both the Book of Mormon (3 Nephi) and the Book of Moses teach that the City of Zion must be built before the Second Coming.

Even after the saints were driven out of Missouri, Doctrine and Covenants states that "Zion shall not be moved."

I asked the teacher whether this idea of physical gathering to one specific location has been abandoned by the Church.

(At this point, many chimed in to assure me that such was not the case, and then related the underground rumors about how the Church is actually buying property in Jackson County, Missouri.)

I asked why it was, then, that in a Church manual specifically devoted to teaching about the gathering of Israel, the words Jackson County (not to mention Missouri) are conspicuously absent.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri