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Not long after "David Koresh" and the other were burned up at the "Mount Carmel" compound near Waco, I was watch a TV program where the host had on several ex-Branch Davidians. They said that David Koresh had "married" all the women in the camp except for the fat and older ones, and that he also "married" a bunch of young girls some as young as 10 years old.

One of the audience got up and said, "They are LIARS! I'm a Branch Davidian. Those two people up there are LIARS!!"

In fact, the two ex-Davidians were telling the PURE TRUTH. These truths have been confirmed by dozens of other ex-Davidians who had lived at Mount Carmel during the time Koresh was doing those things. The Branch Davidian who called them "liars" in fact never lived at Mount Carmel, and was not "initiated" into the knowledge of what went on there. Branch Davidians who did not live at Mount Carmel were never informed of what Koresh was doing.

Joseph smith had only a small number of "Initiates" who knew that he was boffing young girls and the wives of other men. Most Mormons were totally unaware of what he was doing.

Whenever an Ignoramus is confronted by "evidence" or "testimony" he does not wish to accept, he "attacks the Messenger". bcspace is one such Ignoramus.

consiglieri wrote:

Daheshist wrote:bcspace is one such Ignoramus.

Praise from Caesar.

Hey, did you hear the one about Caesar's roommate and the coeds at Grammaticus U?

Breaking a personal rule, I read one of these threads. Now, breaking a second, I'm adding to it.

It probably sounds weird, but one of the things that helped me pull away from the church was an article I read from a couple of members of the Heaven's Gate cult who had either failed in a suicide attempt while living away from the main group or had left physically but were still struggling to make sense of their own apparent deception.

It was eye-opening to realize how similar I felt, and in seeing parallels between people in a group which I had no doubt was cultish and my own feelings, it opened the door for me to examine my own beliefs in ways that may not have been possible otherwise.

In this case, I think D brings up an interesting topic and one that may be helpful for people who are struggling with doubt but are unsure of what to do regarding the church. In the end, the parallels are much stronger than just between the leaders. It was in reading the parallel feelings of the struggling followers where I began to see it potentially as a mirror and not as a peepshow in on the absurd.

The following quote from a 1997 CNN interview regarding Heaven's Gate is insightful, I think -

Janja Lalich : “These people are no different than you and I, if you mean people who join these groups. According to all the studies, people who join these groups are above average intelligence, from stable backgrounds, they do not have any pre-existing psychological difficulties, or problems. But they were at a transition point in their lives, when perhaps they were not completely connected or totally fulfilled with what was going on at the time, and if there is any common thread or traits, it is idealism, curiosity, and urge to create a better world, and wanting a sense of meaning and purpose.”

I think we can all be susceptible to this, and it isn't only religious (traditional) organizations that prey on this vulnerability. I think it takes a certain level of self-awareness to be able to accept we have all probably stared into a pit of this kind in one way or another.

Whenever an Ignoramus is confronted by "evidence" or "testimony" he does not wish to accept, he "attacks the Messenger". bcspace is one such Ignoramus.

What Daheshist is fuming about is my still unanswered challenge to this claim of his:

As a good Mormon I was expected to believe that "everything" that a Living Prophet says or writes is Eternal Gospel Truth and the very Oracles of God, Living Scriptures....until he is a Dead Prophet, then his words and writings were "his own opinion" only.

Of course even the most jaded antiMormon who grew up in the Church knows this is a lie. And Daheshist also fails to appreciate the spirit of this board graphically posted at the top of every page (Liar! Heathen!). But yes, Daheshist is lying (O truly tremendous one!) the same as most other antiMormons do who post here. He's merely much less subtle about it.