DiscussMormonism.com

Thee   /ði/ Show Spelled[thee] pronoun

1. The objective case of thou: With this ring, I thee wed. I shall bring thee a mighty army.

Origin: before 900; Middle English; Old English thē (orig. dative; later dative and accusative); cognate with Low German di, German dir, Old Norse thēr. See thou

Thou   /ðaʊ/ Show Spelled [thou] pronoun, singular, nominative thou; possessive thy or thine; objective thee; plural, nominative you or ye;possessive your or yours;objective you or ye; verb
pronoun

1.Archaic. The personal pronoun of the second person singular in the nominative case (used to denote the person or thing addressed): Thou shalt not kill.

Origin: before 900; Middle English; Old English thū; cognate with German, Middle Dutch du, Old Norse thū, Gothic thu, Old Irish tú, Welsh, Cornish ti, Latin tū, Doric Greek tý, Lithuanian tù, OCS ty; akin to Sanskrit tvam;(v.) late Middle English thowen, derivative of the pronoun.

We Mormons use thee and thou because they appear in both the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon. We claim they should still be used in Church prayer because these words are more reverential than modern English words. My question is whether we have elevated these words from Elizabethan English into something more than the original word usage? Can any of you wordsmiths shed some moisture on this subject?

.

moksha wrote: ... these words are more reverential than modern English words ...

And - obviously - they can be translated to the 148 (?) language handled in COB.
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Please don't forget, we are speaking about a worldwide church...

Interestingly enough the Mormon church encourages the use of familiar Spanish in its scriptures, and when praying.

right, along the lines of what doc points out, "thou" is our lost familiar voice. "you" was the more formal form of address, following the pattern of other indo-european languages, especially the latin based ones. its resemblance to the "tu" of spanish, portuguese, french, and italian is fairly obvious. therefore, its interpretation by many american church members as being "more formal/respectful" is off base. funny, i grew up thinking, as i'm sure a great many did, that to pray using "you" was just plain gauche and even disrespectful. by the time i hit my later teen years, i realized that, although it felt normal to me because of my upbringing, surely god didn't care either way.

i'd be curious to know how things like this, taking the sacrament only with your right hand, wearing a white shirt (for men), and other similar things got their start. i guess every subculture has its quirks/in-group identifiers.

floatingboy wrote:right, along the lines of what doc points out, "thou" is our lost familiar voice. "you" was the more formal form of address, following the pattern of other indo-european languages, especially the latin based ones. its resemblance to the "tu" of spanish, portuguese, french, and italian is fairly obvious. therefore, its interpretation by many american church members as being "more formal/respectful" is off base. funny, i grew up thinking, as I'm sure a great many did, that to pray using "you" was just plain gauche and even disrespectful. by the time i hit my later teen years, i realized that, although it felt normal to me because of my upbringing, surely god didn't care either way.

i'd be curious to know how things like this, taking the sacrament only with your right hand, wearing a white shirt (for men), and other similar things got their start. i guess every subculture has its quirks/in-group identifiers.

Who am I to criticize the choice made by certain religious believers to use archaic forms when addressing their deity?

But if they do make that choice, I can't understand why they so rarely take the trouble to get the grammar right.

We Mormons use thee and thou because they appear in both the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon. We claim they should still be used in Church prayer because these words are more reverential than modern English words.

Don't tell me or anyone how to pray.

Prior to joining the Mormon cult I prayed with what I considered my heart, my soul. After joining the cult, I was told my way of praying was wrong and insulting. I was told to pray their way.

Why does God care about how a soul communicates with him?

It is just another way that Mormonism creates an "Us vs Them" mentality. It also wreaks of corporate mentality.

Mormons do the same thing when they go into foreign countries to convert. They tell the indigenous people to put on a shirt and a tie and be just like Salt Lake City Corporate Mormonism. Screw your prior belief, screw your traditions - Mormonism's correlated vision fits all.

Again, it's another measure of Mormon cult control.

http://LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng wrote: 8 We believe the aBible to be the bword of God as far as it is translated ccorrectly; we also believe the dBook of Mormon to be the word of God.

Do You know what does
- aBible
- bword
- ccorrectly
- dBook
mean?

These words does mean that there are some translation problems.

Doctrine and Covenants 107:92 wrote:Behold, here is wisdom; yea, to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church.

Behold, here is wisdom.

_________________________________
On May 7, 1950, Monson became an LDS bishop at age 22. He had previously served as ward clerk, ward YMMIA superintendent, and as a counselor in a bishopric.[10] At the time, Monson's Salt Lake City ward contained over 1,000 people, including 85 widows whom he visited regularly

Chap wrote:Who am I to criticize ...

... anything ...

Agree.

Interestingly enough, one of the last lessons I attended at the LDS church was about the proper way to pray. After everyone expressed their opinions about the legalistic, formal and LDS "required" format for prayer including all kinds of crazy thoughts about why gods wants us to pray a certain way, I actually raised my hand and said "I don't think god cares about how people choose to pray and, I believe, that the desperate single mother standing in her kitchen saying "please god help me feed my children" if far more powerful than any formally structured prayer..." - the conversation turned momentarily to sincerity but quickly returned the "proper" pattern of prayer as taught by the LDS god....

Thouest has a stick up thy arse when using these honorifics.