DiscussMormonism.com

Imagine if it were possible to be both blind and unfeeling of the effects of the Sun's radiation. It is all around us each day and give life to the planet upon which we exist. In the same manner we live move and have a being in the constant presence of the power of God. It is a constant. Unlike the Sun it does not come and go and thereby make us keenly aware of its presence. Any fluctuation of God's power registers immediately with us. Those fluctuations are triggered by what WE do. If we deny God and deny faith and deny truth the hairs that trigger any manifesting fluctuation are waxed flat and no fluctuation is possible.


Acts 17: 28
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Mosiah 2: 21
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.

D&C 45: 1
1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, to whom the kingdom has been given; hearken ye and give ear to him who laid the foundation of the earth, who made the heavens and all the hosts thereof, and by whom all things were made which live, and move, and have a being.

Faith, repentance and a fixed determination to come to know the Lord and make actual covenants that open portals of higher dimensions that greatly enlarge our living and being and add substantively to our thoughts and talents is contained in the real Gospel of Jesus Christ. Much like moving in closer to the Sun.

The lone and dreary world is like abiding far out on the planet Neptune, deep in outer space, far from the warmth of the Sun. God is even there and all life that we do enjoy comes from the presence of God's power in all things and round about all things and through all things.

Untethered faith, and letting go of hope, and displacing charity, which is the perfect love of Christ, with a lust for vilification sets a soul adrift to faint regions where spiritual fluctuations are almost nil. You deniers still feel them. You call them something else because your whole soul is caught up in the arrogance of redefining all things and living in that invention. Pride.

Search within and begin to come alive to a reality as easily proven as daily breath. Truth needs at least two reference points to be comprehended. You are one and God is another. Once you feel, discover, hear, sense, believe and better still, come to know by gospel rites the reality of the Other you have discovered the truth of God.

Many reject religion and take up mocking it because they expect a proof of God to be found IN the religion which is NOT where God is. The kingdom is within and does not come by observation. (vulgar evidence)

It did little good for Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Elisha, Daniel or even Jesus Christ to demonstrate the power of God in the world medium of vulgar evidence. God wants to teach you and add to you and enlarge your soul. He works by the still small voice within. He cannot begin until you distill your heart and seek the first fluctuation. Wait for the troubling of the waters. Follow that courageously unto a perfect day.

We all live move and have our being in the constant proof of God. Believe it.
What liars say about us is not self-evident. We know that we are not electro-mechanical lumps of sheer luck. Every glorious instrument knows that they are wondrously made. Listen for it. Hear the music of truth played within.

I'm not going to argue with such a nice post. I like it!

I agree, the best proof of god would be if he decided to get off his ass and show up.

I wonder why he hasn't bothered...

quark wrote:I'm not going to argue with such a nice post. I like it!

Thanks. I needed to see something nice today.

Some Schmo wrote:I agree, the best proof of god would be if he decided to get off his ass and show up.

I wonder why he hasn't bothered...

He is here, he has always been here, Mr. Brown, all we need is the faith to hear him. Perhaps it is YOU who needs to get up off the can and answer the door. No, not that door. The door in your heart where God stands ready to open. Take a look at the elegance of all creation. Would not such a God be just as elegant in his intimacy with each of us? He is. This way he has our undivided and not distracted attention.

If he showed up in a vulgar manifestation of his glory and power for all the world to see, how would you gain anything in the cacophonic confusion? Just not going to happen. What would be the point? God does things the way that they work best. Make no mistake about it. Nothing is more impressive to your heart and mind than truths discovered within. We are his workmanship and his workroom. Let him.

Nightlion wrote:Many reject religion and take up mocking it because they expect a proof of God to be found IN the religion which is NOT where God is. The kingdom is within and does not come by observation. (vulgar evidence)

So this is how I can know if God is real? This is an odd way to learn truth. It seems very prone to our own thoughts and wishes. It seems more likely that is product of our own minds.

There are lots of people and many different religions. Most religious people seem to have this same inner conviction and yet their religions contradict one other. Not every religion can be true. Most of them have to be false. So how can this inner conviction be our guide when it leads so many people in different directions?

Stormy Waters wrote:

Nightlion wrote:Many reject religion and take up mocking it because they expect a proof of God to be found IN the religion which is NOT where God is. The kingdom is within and does not come by observation. (vulgar evidence)

So this is how I can know if God is real? This is an odd way to learn truth. It seems very prone to our own thoughts and wishes. It seems more likely that is product of our own minds.

Which is why we first must get to know well our own thoughts before God will introduce his thoughts. That stark contrast of his revelation will prove God well beyond all subjectivity.

There are lots of people and many different religions. Most religious people seem to have this same inner conviction and yet their religions contradict one other. Not every religion can be true. Most of them have to be false. So how can this inner conviction be our guide when it leads so many people in different directions?

Has God made all things with no variety or an abundance of variety? Religion which is NOT where God is found demands definition and boundaries. God can comprehend the depths of it all. Allow him to draw all together in his own ways and mean. Who can deny the value of the Tao Te Ching, or say Lao Tzu was not listening to an inner voice that greatly enlarged his soul? Every tradition clutters with the vain things of little worth. Everything I say is mere clutter compared with the actual experience of being taught of God and the discovery of its beginning.

I am not saying every way is equal. I follow Jesus Christ as the way and the truth and the light. But look at how wrecked the Christian tradition is today. It has been fully confounded so that none work the works of God according to the commandments of Jesus Christ. They work a work after the imagination of their own hearts.

I am all for every man and woman to sit peacefully by the waters and seek an inner way. God will respond once honored by a fierce determination that resists all else by offering all the heart, might, mind and strength seeking the kingdom of God within. Jesus commanded this very act of all of us. This is what a virtuous existence demands from us. To seek the end of our creation.

If you want to make the point that everyone is doing this with the same intent and a variety disproves all results as specious I simply disagree. Everyone is NOT applying themselves the same. MOST, I dare say, 99.99% do not apply themselves in the least bit. All that results is just filler. Few there be that find it.

I pleaded with every Mormon I met (That I got to converse with) to come unto Christ with full purpose of heart. NONE did. Not in forty years of preaching really well. All is not equal and your posit carries no nullifying virtue.

You have picked up the entire mass of flawed humanity to show that God does not exist. I can pluck up a solitary lily from the field and show better that he does.

Nightlion wrote:If he showed up in a vulgar manifestation of his glory and power for all the world to see, how would you gain anything in the cacophonic confusion? Just not going to happen. What would be the point?

So the result of God coming to earth would be confusion? Being God, I imagine he'd be able to come up with a graceful entrance to the world. Even if he came in a way which caused confusion at least I would know for sure that he existed. Which if it were true, would be the most important thing for me to know.

The point would be to let people know that he exists in a clear and indisputable way. Not to rely on our 'feelings' or 'instinct' which can be misleading. If our eternal salvation is at stake, I think it's the least that he can do.

Stormy Waters wrote:

Nightlion wrote:If he showed up in a vulgar manifestation of his glory and power for all the world to see, how would you gain anything in the cacophonic confusion? Just not going to happen. What would be the point?

So the result of God coming to earth would be confusion? Being God, I imagine he'd be able to come up with a graceful entrance to the world. Even if he came in a way which caused confusion at least I would know for sure that he existed. Which if it were true, would be the most important thing for me to know.

The point would be to let people know that he exists in a clear and indisputable way. Not to rely on our 'feelings' or 'instinct' which can be misleading. If our eternal salvation is at stake, I think it's the least that he can do.

The appearance of God in this generation would not take and none would be convinced of anything. We would call him an invading alien. We would shoot all our nuclear missiles at him when he got near. The maligners would be making all the world prejudice fending off a world-wide threat of our normalcy. I even think people would react insanely and possibly just start killing everything in a mad attempt to force God to retreat back to where he came from.

Do you really so disrespect a REAL God to expect him to show up today when all nations officially endorse the blasphemy of evolution? You think man is worthy of a world-wide theophany? Why? You show him no respect at all. Even when a neighbor is coming over you would straighten up your living room. So you are only interested in maligning God and could not care less of his feelings. You have no shame.

Nightlion wrote:The appearance of God in this generation would not take and none would be convinced of anything

It's quite the statement to say that God could appear to the world and that not one of the 7 billion people on earth would be convinced. I think a God should be persuasive enough to get a least a few people to believe. Sorry this just seems too convenient of an excuse for me. That God is excused from proving himself to us because nobody would believe him anyway. I'll give you credit though. I can't say I've heard a religious person try this argument before.

Nightlion wrote:So you are only interested in maligning God and could not care less of his feelings. You have no shame.

Because I want evidence of his existence? The apostle Thomas is guilty of the same. "Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."