Let's see where we can get with this

[_stemelbow]

You. Uh. You clearly don't understand the intent behind the question.

You do understand Joseph Smith was a "critic", don't you? Martin Luther was the Father of the Reformation. What do you think of his courageous actions?

V/R
Dr. Cam

He had many actions. he had many claims. I could probably look at each and comment if ya like. Generally, I think my initial answer gives my general impression. Hope that helps.

[_RockSlider]

I thought, hey, maybe I have not given Stem a chance, so I read your OP and responded with something that should be worthy of a response.

Nah. my faith is not in the Church. You simply have created a straw man regarding me. Ah well. you guys...

Well Stem, Your OP mentions the church no less than seven times, as well as declaring that ""I have faith that the Church is true".

And yet not once was God, Christ or the Restored Gospel mentioned. Your defense in the OP, is for the Church, you're declared faith is in the church and yet now you claim that is not the case, and I've created a straw man?

Oh well, back on mental ignore

yap, yap … oh sorry, pep, pep.

[_Drifting]

You. Uh. You clearly don't understand the intent behind the question.

You do understand Joseph Smith was a "critic", don't you? Martin Luther was the Father of the Reformation. What do you think of his courageous actions?

V/R
Dr. Cam

He had many actions. he had many claims. I could probably look at each and comment if ya like. Generally, I think my initial answer gives my general impression. Hope that helps.

Why do you think God prompted Martin Luther King, a Non-Mormon, to fight racial discrimination (to the point of giving his life) decades before he passed the word to His Prophet that actually MLK had been right, it was time to let the Blacks have the Priesthood?

[_stemelbow]

Stemelbow, are you saying that you cannot see the hypocrisy in your opening post?

Its not there, Drifting. so of course not. My point here is not to justify my faith. My faith, I recognize is unjustifiable in terms of argument, point and counter-point.

The critics claim, it seems to me, is generally, the Church is proven false. I'm eager to see that proof. the claim of proving a negative is a tough one to maintain, I'd think.

As for the Church's claims, myself, individually, I can stake out a position on each and every claim myself. I can take a nay or a yea position, if I like.

hope this helps.

[_Themis]

I can agree that the general dictionary definition of faith suggests faith is not evidence, but that does not discount that the concept of faiith is evidence to believers. In other words believers use the word faith to mean something other than nonbelievers. This here highlights the problem of you not being able/willing to see the other side.

You may, and some others may agree with you, bot no stem, many if not most believers do not agree with you. You talk like you represent them, but you do not. I think most believers would think it is silly to say faith is evidence. The evidence members use is what they believe to be communication with the HG. This is the evdience they base their faith on. The question then can be whether this really is the evidence they believe it to be?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

He had many actions. he had many claims. I could probably look at each and comment if ya like. Generally, I think my initial answer gives my general impression. Hope that helps.

Ok. So you don't have anything to add to your own thread. * Tappin' out. *

D/R DR. C

[_stemelbow]

I thought, hey, maybe I have not given Stem a chance, so I read your OP and responded with something that should be worthy of a response.

Well Stem, Your OP mentions the church no less than seven times, as well as declaring that ""I have faith that the Church is true".

And yet not once was God, Christ or the Restored Gospel mentioned. Your defense in the OP, is for the Church, you're declared faith is in the church and yet now you claim that is not the case, and I've created a straw man?

Oh well, back on mental ignore

yap, yap … oh sorry, pep, pep.

By saying "I have faith the Church is true", I am not saying I have faith in the Church, but rather I have faith that the general tenets of the religion, meaning that God lives, Christ is the Savior of mankind and the Gospel is restored, are true. Please forgive my more or less conventional way of putting it and move on to discuss.

[_schreech]

I thought, hey, maybe I have not given Stem a chance, so I read your OP and responded with something that should be worthy of a response.

Nah. my faith is not in the Church. You simply have created a straw man regarding me. Ah well. you guys...

Well Stem, Your OP mentions the church no less than seven times, as well as declaring that ""I have faith that the Church is true".

And yet not once was God, Christ or the Restored Gospel mentioned. Your defense in the OP, is for the Church, you're declared faith is in the church and yet now you claim that is not the case, and I've created a straw man?

Oh well, back on mental ignore

yap, yap … oh sorry, pep, pep.

pep pep!

[Guest]

Stemelbow, are you saying that you cannot see the hypocrisy in your opening post?

Its not there, Drifting. so of course not.

hope this helps.

It does. I now know how you maintain your faith in the Church.



Thank you, I won't bother you again.
(Ooops, missed out the word 'with', please insert into the sentence above where you feel it fits).

[_stemelbow]

Why do you think God prompted Martin Luther King, a Non-Mormon, to fight racial discrimination (to the point of giving his life) decades before he passed the word to His Prophet that actually MLK had been right, it was time to let the Blacks have the Priesthood?

To move away from racial discrimination as much as possible of course.