DiscussMormonism.com

In an effort to help us evidentialists understand where you believers are coming from, I have identified three queries for you. If you would be so kind as to explain in detail, it would help us (well, at least me) understand you better and respect you more. This thread is the first of the three. Here is second and here is the third.

Rather than just refer vaguely to 'an experience', or that it was 'undeniable' or 'could not be other than spiritual witness from god', please explain in detail what this experience was. On the LDS.org website, there was a link where it specified that this is different for different people, and members should not expect more than gentle promptings from the spirit. But, for example, what got prompted?

Did you see anything? If so, what? Was it in the mind's eye? or the two peepers on either side of the bridge of your nose?

Did you hear anything? If so, what? Was it in the mind's ear? or those two things on either side of your head, below and behind the temples of your head?

Did you smell or taste anything? If so, describe? Was it with the mind's nose or tongue, or those physical one's on the front of your face and in your mouth?

Did you feel a touch anywhere on your physical body? Did your body shutter or shake as a result of this experience?

Was it a thought that entered your mind? A gestalt like experience? Did you feel peaceful? (How did you feel before that?)

Did you get warm? What part(s) of your body? Did you perspire? How profusely? Which other physical manifestations or reactions occurred?

How long did it last?

Where were you?

Was anyone else present? If so, who?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I have identified three queries for you

That's more than 3... :)

I suspect this will go somewhere very Matrix-ish. "What is sound? It's all just electrical impulses that the brain interprets as sound!"

Here's how I look at it. It's like finding a celestial companion. You have no real evidence that the marriage will work out because you are so young and naïve. You just feel right about it.

sock puppet please see my second post here

Yeah, I finally noticed how to do this right!

About 20 years ago, my grandmother passed away. She was always very dear to me and an integral part of my life.

My husband and two small children and I were living in Utah at the time. My Grandmother resided in California.

She had a sudden stroke and was admitted into the hospital. She was basically considered "brain dead" and was being kept alive on life support. My Dad and his brothers had the task of making the decision to turn off the machines.

Before Dad called me and told me what was going on, I had a vision. My husband and the girls had gone to the store and I was home alone, catching up on some studying in my bedroom. My grandmother appeared to me. I seriously thought I was losing my mind. I had NEVER experienced anything like this before.

Grandma sat on the bed next to me and spoke to me...carrying on a conversation just like any normal conversation I would have with her. There was a soft light around her, but she looked basically like she had always looked, except calmer...more serene.

She took my hand in hers, and said, "Elizabeth, I have had a stroke. I am going to die. Your father is going to call you, and tell you that they are contemplating turning off life support. I want you to let him know that it's ok. I'm happy. I'll be with Pop (my grandpa), Grandma Mable (my great-grandma), and Grandpa Earl. They're going to keep me very busy from what I understand. I'm going to be doing some missionary work.

Now...about the funeral....I would like you and Todd (my brother) to sing "Line Upon Line"...and I don't want my funeral to be some solemn event. I want it to feel like a missionary farewell because that's really what it is.

Please help comfort your Dad, Archie, Jack, and Pat(my uncles). Poor Pat. He's going to have the hardest time with all of this. I love you. I'm so proud of you, and I'll be looking out for you."

There was more said between us, but that was the gist of it. She was gone.

About 15 minutes later, my Dad called and filled me in on what was happening with Grandma. I told him that I already knew. He was crying. I told him that it was ok to turn off life support. That's what Grandma wants. I told him about the funeral plans.

The funeral was carried out exactly as Grandma wanted...and I have felt her presence from time to time over the years.

Let me emphasize that NO ONE had contacted me regarding anything that had happened with Grandma before she appeared to me.

I was living in a different state. There was no way I could have known what had happened.

I've never written this experience out before, or related it to anyone besides my Dad, my brother, and my husband.

I have never been prone to hallucinations...and...even if I was....how could I hallucinate something that I had no prior knowledge of?

This experience confirmed to me that there is a life beyond this one.

I think there are a lot of unknowns....but I do believe that we will see loved ones who have died again based on this experience.

liz3564 wrote:About 20 years ago, my grandmother passed away. She was always very dear to me and an integral part of my life.

My husband and two small children and I were living in Utah at the time. My Grandmother resided in California.

She had a sudden stroke and was admitted into the hospital. She was basically considered "brain dead" and was being kept alive on life support. My Dad and his brothers had the task of making the decision to turn off the machines.

Before Dad called me and told me what was going on, I had a vision. My husband and the girls had gone to the store and I was home alone, catching up on some studying in my bedroom. My grandmother appeared to me. I seriously thought I was losing my mind. I had NEVER experienced anything like this before.

Grandma sat on the bed next to me and spoke to me...carrying on a conversation just like any normal conversation I would have with her. There was a soft light around her, but she looked basically like she had always looked, except calmer...more serene.

She took my hand in hers, and said, "Elizabeth, I have had a stroke. I am going to die. Your father is going to call you, and tell you that they are contemplating turning off life support. I want you to let him know that it's ok. I'm happy. I'll be with Pop (my grandpa), Grandma Mable (my great-grandma), and Grandpa Earl. They're going to keep me very busy from what I understand. I'm going to be doing some missionary work.

Now...about the funeral....I would like you and Todd (my brother) to sing "Line Upon Line"...and I don't want my funeral to be some solemn event. I want it to feel like a missionary farewell because that's really what it is.

Please help comfort your Dad, Archie, Jack, and Pat(my uncles). Poor Pat. He's going to have the hardest time with all of this. I love you. I'm so proud of you, and I'll be looking out for you."

There was more said between us, but that was the gist of it. She was gone.

About 15 minutes later, my Dad called and filled me in on what was happening with Grandma. I told him that I already knew. He was crying. I told him that it was ok to turn off life support. That's what Grandma wants. I told him about the funeral plans.

The funeral was carried out exactly as Grandma wanted...and I have felt her presence from time to time over the years.

Let me emphasize that NO ONE had contacted me regarding anything that had happened with Grandma before she appeared to me.

I was living in a different state. There was no way I could have known what had happened.

I've never written this experience out before, or related it to anyone besides my Dad, my brother, and my husband.

I have never been prone to hallucinations...and...even if I was....how could I hallucinate something that I had no prior knowledge of?

This experience confirmed to me that there is a life beyond this one.

I think there are a lot of unknowns....but I do believe that we will see loved ones who have died again based on this experience.

I for one will admit to being impressed. Anyone?

sock puppet wrote:Did you feel a touch anywhere on your physical body? Did your body shutter or shake as a result of this experience?

Look, when a Stygian Succubus has her way with you, of course you shutter and moan.

How long did it last?

I ain't no minute man if that is what you are wondering.

Was anyone else present? If so, who?

All I remember something about a toaster and some guy shouting "Shulem" over and over again.

.

liz3564 wrote:About 20 years ago, my grandmother passed away. She was always very dear to me and an integral part of my life.

My husband and two small children and I were living in Utah at the time. My Grandmother resided in California.

She had a sudden stroke and was admitted into the hospital. She was basically considered "brain dead" and was being kept alive on life support. My Dad and his brothers had the task of making the decision to turn off the machines.

Before Dad called me and told me what was going on, I had a vision. My husband and the girls had gone to the store and I was home alone, catching up on some studying in my bedroom. My grandmother appeared to me. I seriously thought I was losing my mind. I had NEVER experienced anything like this before.

Grandma sat on the bed next to me and spoke to me...carrying on a conversation just like any normal conversation I would have with her. There was a soft light around her, but she looked basically like she had always looked, except calmer...more serene.

She took my hand in hers, and said, "Elizabeth, I have had a stroke. I am going to die. Your father is going to call you, and tell you that they are contemplating turning off life support. I want you to let him know that it's ok. I'm happy. I'll be with Pop (my grandpa), Grandma Mable (my great-grandma), and Grandpa Earl. They're going to keep me very busy from what I understand. I'm going to be doing some missionary work.

Now...about the funeral....I would like you and Todd (my brother) to sing "Line Upon Line"...and I don't want my funeral to be some solemn event. I want it to feel like a missionary farewell because that's really what it is.

Please help comfort your Dad, Archie, Jack, and Pat(my uncles). Poor Pat. He's going to have the hardest time with all of this. I love you. I'm so proud of you, and I'll be looking out for you."

There was more said between us, but that was the gist of it. She was gone.

About 15 minutes later, my Dad called and filled me in on what was happening with Grandma. I told him that I already knew. He was crying. I told him that it was ok to turn off life support. That's what Grandma wants. I told him about the funeral plans.

The funeral was carried out exactly as Grandma wanted...and I have felt her presence from time to time over the years.

Let me emphasize that NO ONE had contacted me regarding anything that had happened with Grandma before she appeared to me.

I was living in a different state. There was no way I could have known what had happened.

I've never written this experience out before, or related it to anyone besides my Dad, my brother, and my husband.

I have never been prone to hallucinations...and...even if I was....how could I hallucinate something that I had no prior knowledge of?

This experience confirmed to me that there is a life beyond this one.

I think there are a lot of unknowns....but I do believe that we will see loved ones who have died again based on this experience.

Liz:

I've always wanted to read about such experiences on this board, but because of the general tenor here toward such things, I've never thought anyone would share much. In fact, I thought Sock's three-part "drill down" was set up in such a way as to preclude the very discussion he seemed to be asking for.

But thanks for taking the risk of laying out this experience for us. I've read other accounts of similar visitations of loved ones by the soon-to-be-departed. I don't think the similarity in these stories is a reason to immediately discount them, but I am intrigued by their analogous narrative structure and status as "memory artifacts."

Liz, I think your experience is amazing and touching and I don't doubt that you experienced it. I'm not sure that it should be interpreted as affirming Mormonism, however, since many people from many faiths have similar experiences and interpret them as affirming their faith.

I've had some powerful spiritual experiences. I always viewed them as 100% reliable ... until I realized that Joseph Smith and other religious leaders (Wayne Bent) used these experiences to bed young girls. It kind of took the sheen off the whole thing at that point.

I still have spiritual experiences, but I am much less certain about how to interpret them. Usually I interpret them as simply making me feel better with nothing more. I definitely don't think they are a reliable indicator of some cosmic, absolute truth.

That was an interesting post, liz, and I appreciate your willingness to share it with us assholes.

You know what's funny? As I was reading it, I found myself very much wanting to believe it was an honest to goodness supernatural event (by the way, I do believe you believe it, for what it's worth). I was overcome with that desire, in fact. I was in no mood to try to work out what might explain it naturally; I just wanted it to be real. I'm being completely serious about that, liz.

So yeah, I'm sincerely grateful you shared it. And I hope you're doing well.