DiscussMormonism.com

Anyone else watching this show on the national geographic channel? A psychic, a dowser and a remote viewer teaming up to find lost treasure.

I love when they say the data indicates we should dig here. So far they are as good as Joseph and his seer stone. Zilch.

What show are you watching? It sounds like it might be the "Joseph Smith Story".

I think they need to slit the throat of a black dog to ward off the guardian spirit.

Doesn't Dr. Peterson have a testimony of water witching? I thought I heard him say (MormonStories Podcast?) that he had an experience with a dowsing rod that leads him to believe there's something to it. Am I misremembering?

Do dowsers believe the ability comes from magic or from what they believe to be natural law?

Also.....

"digging for money hid in the earth is a very common thing and in this state it is even considered as honorable and profitable employment"
Palmyra Herald (24 July 1822

In other words, this criticism is merely presentism.

bcspace wrote:In other words, this criticism is merely presentism.

Presentism, eh? Did Joseph Smith, Jr. find anything with his seer stone that his employers hired him to find?

bcspace wrote:
In other words, this criticism is merely presentism.

And your criticism (I guess) of the criticism seems silly. Does having a modern outlook on life make one's opinions invalid?

As an example, I read a book once about a small town in Ireland that burned a girl with a severe sinus infection to death in the late 1800's because they believed that she was possessed by fairies. Is it "presentism" to condemn this action as wrong and barbaric? If it is "presentism", does that negate the criticism of this action?

keithb wrote:

bcspace wrote:
In other words, this criticism is merely presentism.

And your criticism (I guess) of the criticism seems silly. Does having a modern outlook on life make one's opinions invalid?

As an example, I read a book once about a small town in Ireland that burned a girl with a severe sinus infection to death in the late 1800's because they believed that she was possessed by fairies. Is it "presentism" to condemn this action as wrong and barbaric? If it is "presentism", does that negate the criticism of this action?

Please - by 'late 1800s', do you mean 'late in the period between 1800 and 1809', or do you mean 'late in the nineteenth century'? There is a distinction there, and it is a useful one. Maybe we could keep it?

I do agree, by the way, that the 'presentism' escape route is often one of the last resorts of the defenders of the indefensible.

bcspace wrote:Do dowsers believe the ability comes from magic or from what they believe to be natural law?

Also.....

"digging for money hid in the earth is a very common thing and in this state it is even considered as honorable and profitable employment"
Palmyra Herald (24 July 1822

In other words, this criticism is merely presentism.

So honorable that there were laws against glass looking, although the part you quote only states digging for money. It also says it was profitable. Maybe someone could show how much money was actually being found, or was the profit solely for those being paid to look. It was thought to be so honorable that Isaac Hale presented his daughter to Joseph so they could get married.

I wonder if Bcspace could show the rest of the article, or was this another copy and paste from Fair or farms. :)

bcspace wrote:Do dowsers believe the ability comes from magic or from what they believe to be natural law?

Also.....

"digging for money hid in the earth is a very common thing and in this state it is even considered as honorable and profitable employment"
Palmyra Herald (24 July 1822

In other words, this criticism is merely presentism.

How does that bear on experiments of the validity of dowsing? I don't think the criticism is "Joseph Smith believed in dowsing and people around him thought that was crazy!". I think it's something more like this, "Dowsing doesn't work, regardless of whether people at the time thought it was honorable and profitable".