DiscussMormonism.com

According to Mormonism, God made the universe, set rules (but lives Himself by some eternal ones), and created us (though as intelligences, we've always existed).

Now, we are here, in mortality--another creation of God. We are being "tested". We're supposed to feel the truth. It's okay for it to be verbal and logical when the communication is from the prophets to the followers, but not from God directly to the followers. That needs to be felt--and whatever it is that is felt, interpreted to mean that we follow the verbal communications from the prophets.

When you consider the number of people that have heard the Gospel from Mormon missionaries, and how few have felt/interpreted the communication from God and become Mormons, it is clear that it is only a very small fraction that feels/interprets it "right" if Mormonism is true.

Since this is all God's gig, does He want most of us to fail his test?

Is a failure by any of us God's fault, since it is all His design?

Now, I suspect the initial response by the defenders will be the old 'free agency' and God lives by these rules too refrains. Back in the day, those are what I would have claimed as a respondent. But the second one simply begs the question, who set the rules by which even Elohim and Jehovah must abide?

The first one, free agency, doesn't explain it either. For example, free agency to do what? Hopefully figure out the feel/interpret riddle correctly, and then choose to give up that agency all together and submit to the will of God so that I get to be with the Guy that won't suffer the presence of diversity, i.e., anyone that won't do just what He wants? The Celestial Kingdom sounds like a place of just Elohim robots, no independent thinking there.

Or, miss the feeling/interpretation and thus not be allowed to live with Him. Or, get the feeling/interpretation right, but choose to 'go my own way', be an intelligence co-eternal with His and actually choose a path that reflects the difference of my intelligence versus His. That too prevents me, according to the dogma, from living with Him. (Why would I want to go back to live with God who as a result of my having voted for His plan in the preexistence, I am 'rewarded' by no longer being able to be with him. Do I really want to return to live with a Parent who kicked me out of His presence for having agreed with Him?)

And if this doesn't all sound far fetched and illogical, it is yet Someone who set the rules that will result in failure by most and yet the consequences borne not by Him, but by those He considers failures.

First of all, the doctrine of the Three Degrees of glory is a worldly idea conceived by humans who promote classes and degrees of people based on position and wealth. This doctrine is rooted in the love of money and the love of power.

Second, the idea that a loving God has to send his own precious son to be murdered and nailed on a cross just so he can work up the courage to forgive his other children is totally the sickest doctrine ever conceived by man. Christian blood is more of the Old Testament -- brutal and pointless. No loving God is out to kill animals or a beloved son in order to forgive someone. The idea of God telling Abraham to kill his son is evil! The idea that God won't forgive you unless you confess Jesus is stupid.

Third, the teaching that you can't return to live with God the Father unless you become a baptized Mormon and follow the teachings of the prophet is cultish and utterly wrong. Mormonism is just a cult that works on the fears of every heart it can claim. It's all about fear and control.

Paul O

I think the degrees of glory is probably quite accurate.

Heaven is supposed to be paradise for everyone who goes there and unless God created a place that was able to use crazy cool laws of Physics far far beyond our realm that allowed for multiple realities to occur simultaneously then it is probably quite impossible to say that heaven will be heaven for every individual whilst living amongst each other. So in my opinion it is probably quite likely that the degrees overlap, like multiple dimensions or parallel dimensions that can interact on some level but is limited by the knowledge of what paradise actually is. So people in the Celestial will have more knowledge because to them that is what Heaven is, to me heaven is to be in peace and have full understanding. To some people heaven is to be ignorant and jovial. And so one who chose a "higher" happiness as philosophy might say, they might have the knowledge to see how the heavens work in tandem and so they could even learn to travel between heavens and that might be how higher glories can visit lower glories but not the other way around.

Words are only words, they have no meaning in the grander scheme of things.

Like in South park, there was an episode I found funny, where someone told some people who went to heaven to be quiet because the Mormons thought they were on their own. But actually other people were there too. I think you will go where you fit in and where you are comfortable and happy and I think there will be many degrees of glory and it is by our understanding of Glory and our comfort within that that will determine our reality in the after life, if such thing is true.

My understanding of Mormon doctrine is that God did not make the rules. This is the reason 1/3 of his children were sent to outer darkness. This is why his hands were tied when Jesus asked for comfort on the cross.

The rules pre-date God. Destroy the rules and you destroy God. Alma 42:22

sock puppet wrote:Since this is all God's gig, does He want most of us to fail his test?

Is a failure by any of us God's fault, since it is all His design?

Anyone have any opinions in response to these questions from the OP?