Guilt and Denial

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_Runtu
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Guilt and Denial

Post by _Runtu »

A friend pointed out this study, which suggests that religious people engage in the same kinds of sexual behaviors that secular people do, but they experience far higher levels of guilt and shame, and are much less open about acknowledging or expressing their desires.

I've said many times that I grew up burdened with feelings of guilt, shame, and inadequacy, which I attribute to the combination of my family dynamics and the church's teachings. Many LDS church members have responded that I obviously didn't understand the gospel and that I was the exception. Everyone else in the church understands forgiveness and repentance and doesn't carry that burden of guilt. These people tell me that I would have grown up this way no matter my religion because of my family dynamics. Of course, a lot of the family dynamics are at least partly related to our Mormonism.

But I've never "blamed" the church for my problems, but just acknowledged it as a factor. When I read this study, it became apparent how much of an influence the church was on my attitudes about myself. The study is about sexuality, but for me, guilt was about a whole host of issues: diligence in scripture study, prayer, home teaching, not controlling my thoughts, wanting material things, pride, not putting out total effort in church callings and obedience, not repenting, and so on ad infinitum. The study struck me because the levels of guilt among Mormons are so much higher than any other group; I suspect this is true in other areas where we Mormons feel guilt.

The study is available here: http://ipcpress.com/

I know, people can argue about methodology, but how do we explain Mormons being the most burdened by guilt?

I read some statements from the author of the study that I thought were interesting:

You do not have to be an academic researcher to test hypotheses about religion and sex. You don’t need any training, just an audience in the proper venue. First, let me explain my own approach to informal testing. When I travel around the country speaking on sex and religion, I ask one question at the beginning of my talk – “How many of you masturbate?” I generally get about 90% who raise their hand. Some even raise both their hands and wave them around vigorously. Then I ask, “How many of you are religious or believe in Jesus, Allah or some other god?” the other 10% raise their hands. Now masturbation is among the easiest and simplest ways to enjoy sex. So this could be a good indicator of how comfortable people are about their sexuality, especially with their own body. From this it seems that the religious are not enjoying their body, or they are afraid to admit it in public. Alternatively, they may be experiencing greater joy and satisfaction through prayer and religious activities.

Next I ask, “How many of you use Pornography?” About 80% raise their hands. The religious 10% don’t raise their hands here either. Our research, and other national surveys, show that about 75% of women and 90% of men use porn to some degree. We even know that religious people use a lot of porn because the highest porn use is in cities and states with the highest religiosity – like Utah and Mississippi. Our research indicates that religious people use more porn than secular people but it seems only the secular people raise their hands in my talks. A recent internet study found that 40% of women who visit a major Christian Women’s website also visit porn sites. From these studies, you can be pretty sure the people in your church are using porn, they just can’t raise their hands if asked.

We know that religious people engage in all of these things. It would be interesting to know why they don’t publically admit their sexual behavior. Secularists seem to have little problem admitting them. What prevents religionists from being honest? Could it be shame and guilt or admitting in public that they behave just like secularists? That was what we found in our study.


There really isn’t much difference at all between secularists and religionists behaviorally. We all masturbate, and we all have sex with multiple partners, and we all fantasize and most of us watch porn.

The thing is, religionists pretend like their religion keeps them from doing these things. In reality, it just creates a culture of denial. Everybody thinks they’re the only ones acting like the heathens, so nobody has the guts to tell the truth. It’s guilt-induced denialism. And that sense of being a uniquely sinful person creates more guilt, so that when the religionist does engage in the same behaviors as secularists, they feel even more guilty. It’s a downward spiral that often has no bottom point. It’s just guilt upon guilt upon guilt.

And as the survey pointed out, it doesn’t change behaviors. It’s just guilt. And that brings us back to the original point — Secularists and religionists do the same things. Secularists just enjoy themselves more.


There is this notion of "godly sorrow" in the church, which is supposed to be a motivation to repent, but more often I see this downward spiral of guilt, which indeed has no bottom point.
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_just me
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _just me »

Great post. I have seen the graph results of this study before, at least I think it is the same one. But had not read the article.

I think one of the worst things about the church (ok, there are a lot) is that it teaches people to lie. When you teach shame and guilt about healthy, normal activities such as masturbation and then you stick a 14 year old child in an office with his ecclesiastical leader...ie Judge in Israel...and ask him if he masturbates you have just taught that child to lie. That child knows that if he tells the truth he will be punished and humiliated, which is often public because he may be prevented from temple trips and taking sacrament or passing, etc.

It's sad that everyone is really doing the same things, just religionists feel really guilty and awful about it. So much for knowing "true happiness" through the gospel.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_Themis
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _Themis »

Runtu wrote:I know, people can argue about methodology, but how do we explain Mormons being the most burdened by guilt?


My take is that the LDS is fairly conservative, and emphasizes more then most religions, keeping the commandments. Repentance is also easier in other religions and much more personal. If you want people to have more guilt and hold it in, make is necessary for forgiveness that they have to go see someone else about the more sinful sins. Whats interesting is that most of the guilt really focus's on sex then the other sins.
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_just me
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _just me »

Oh yeah, there is also a striving for "perfection." I'm not sure if perfection is really emphisized or talked about in other religions like it is in the LDS church.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_Runtu
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _Runtu »

just me wrote:Oh yeah, there is also a striving for "perfection." I'm not sure if perfection is really emphisized or talked about in other religions like it is in the LDS church.


One thing I've realized recently is that the concept of "worthiness" is different in Mormonism than in other religions. Most Christian religions teach that we are all sinners, so worthiness comes from forgiveness, whereas in Mormonism it's our actions, combined with repentance, that determine our worthiness. So, we are constantly doing things to prove our worthiness, rather than accepting that, on our own, we are never completely free of sin and perfect, but that the Atonement makes us so.
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_Buffalo
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _Buffalo »

Thanks for bringing this up again. When I've tried to tell apologists here that Mormonism is largely a shame-based religion, they don't seem to know what I'm talking about. It's nice to have the numbers that back up the personal experience.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_stemelbow
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _stemelbow »

To much is given much is required. That is perhaps the reason why people feel guilt. They feel obligated to try and do good continually. So of course they feel more guilt.

I don't see why the study that went out saying that Utah was at the top of the list of per capita purchased porn use indicates the more Utahns use porn than anywhere else. There are a lot of things to consider. I had a friend who woudl drive to WY to purchase porn because it wasn't very accessible in utah. I can see why that would drive up the purchases via the net.

Also I don't think his audience is a very good statistical sampling. Whose to say some folks who raise their hands in his audience don't really masturbate or don't really use porn?

Anyway, guilt and shame aren't bad inherently. Afterall most people owuld feel guilt after murdering an innocent victim. Some people have just drawn different lines in the sand then others. Some people don't feel guilty if the cheat on their spouse. Others do. Some people don't feel guilty if they take their neighbors shovel. Others do.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Runtu
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _Runtu »

stemelbow wrote:To much is given much is required. That is perhaps the reason why people feel guilt. They feel obligated to try and do good continually. So of course they feel more guilt.


Either that, or guilt is emphasized.

I don't see why the study that went out saying that Utah was at the top of the list of per capita purchased porn use indicates the more Utahns use porn than anywhere else. There are a lot of things to consider. I had a friend who woudl drive to WY to purchase porn because it wasn't very accessible in utah. I can see why that would drive up the purchases via the net.


Sure, there are lots of things to consider, but as the author said, porn use tends to be higher in more religiously conservative areas.

Also I don't think his audience is a very good statistical sampling. Whose to say some folks who raise their hands in his audience don't really masturbate or don't really use porn?


Who would do that, and why? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Anyway, guilt and shame aren't bad inherently. Afterall most people owuld feel guilt after murdering an innocent victim. Some people have just drawn different lines in the sand then others. Some people don't feel guilty if the cheat on their spouse. Others do. Some people don't feel guilty if they take their neighbors shovel. Others do.


What is a normal level of guilt? Why are Mormons so much guiltier than other religious groups? Guilt is appropriate in many cases. I would and should feel guilty if I cheated on my spouse. But it's interesting that Mormons feel more guilt over the same issues than other religious groups.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Buffalo
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _Buffalo »

stemelbow wrote:To much is given much is required. That is perhaps the reason why people feel guilt. They feel obligated to try and do good continually. So of course they feel more guilt.
.


Too bad it doesn't help people behave "better." It just makes them feel worse.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Aristotle Smith
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Re: Guilt and Denial

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

Mormonism lays a triple whammy on people. First, it lays down extremely strict and numerous rules for people the follow. Second, it radically de-emphasizes any conception of grace. Third, it actually separates forgiveness by God from forgiveness by the church. Ironically, the former is generally easier to come by than the latter. Put these together and you have a major problem with guilt and shame.

Now this does have some positive benefits. Mormon youth tend to be marginally more active in church and marginally less sexually promiscuous than the average conservative Christian (which would be the most similar demographic for comparative purposes). But the key word is marginally. I don't remember the statistics but if I remember right it was only a difference of 10-15 percentage points between the two groups. I guess something is better than nothing, but at what cost?
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