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Has anyone ever noticed that, at least according to my knowledge, the Mormon church has never actually retracted the reasoning behind why blacks weren't allowed to have the priesthood? In other words, even though the 1978 revelation rescinded the ban on giving the priesthood to blacks, it never actually retracted or debunked the reasoning (as explained by the statements of several general authorities) behind the ban in the first place: that blacks were "fence sitters" in heaven.

To wit, does the Mormon church still support (or at least not reject) the statements of its previous general authorities that blacks were fence sitters in heaven? If not, what statements by general authorities can be cited showing this retraction of the reasoning behind the initial priesthood ban?

Well, one GA said "forget what BY said, forget what I said...We now have further light and knowledge."
Who was that again? Help us out here! I know several people know what I am referring to.

The scriptural reasons are still used. God didn't want them to have it. They were cursed.

We can "forget" all the speculation and reasons that were used to support God in his racism. We know God was racist, we just don't know why. Or, perhaps it is better to say that we know God cursed people we just can't figure out why that would be fair or right.

Yay?

just me wrote:Well, one GA said "forget what BY said, forget what I said...We now have further light and knowledge."

You mean the guy who was working without light or knowledge? I think that would be Bruce R. McConkie. I believe he said those words as well.

moksha wrote:

just me wrote:Well, one GA said "forget what BY said, forget what I said...We now have further light and knowledge."

You mean the guy who was working without light or knowledge? I think that would be Bruce R. McConkie. I believe he said those words as well.

I think that was who it was. Now we need a google ninja to find the talk.

But, he never actually said that BY was wrong. See, this is my question. Shouldn't Mormons, based on what has already been said, still believe that blacks were fence sitters in the heavenly war? Telling someone to forget a statement is not the same as retracting that statement.

I kind of liken this to polygamy where Mormons still basically believe the doctrine, they just don't practice it in this life anymore. To me, the church's position is basically that it still believes that blacks were less valiant in the Jesus v. Satan war, but they will just let them have the priesthood anyway. Am I wrong?

There are a lot of times in the LDS religion where the church has it both ways or speaks out both sides of its mouth.

This is one of those times. So, yes, we are all done with that filthy stuff about blacks being less valiant. And, yes, we still have many who teach it and believe it and use the scriptures to back themselves up.

There is a related thread on the MD&D forum that I just read. Interestingly, it seems that Cinepro, Juliann and Calmoriah were among the few posters not in deep denial over the the Priesthood Ban. They made some good points.

Of course, Why me had the best answer from the start, but the crowd was not interested in new light and knowledge.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56508-priesthood-ban-evidence-for-when-it-began/

I wish the Church could address this issue with an apology so it could be put to rest (even though apologists would insist that it is already moribund). Otherwise, it will always be more than a historical footnote.

moksha wrote:
You mean the guy who was working without light or knowledge? I think that would be Bruce R. McConkie. I believe he said those words as well.

Bruce R. was a very strict General Authority but I do reremember him to be much respected by the LDS membership. He gave some really good talks and he was inspiratioinal in his messages.

But now reading him, he can seem outdated with the times. But back in the 70's, his message about sexual purity was in a way right on target since we were in the midst of the sexual revolution back then. And now, we can see where this revolution has led us.

moksha wrote:

Of course, Why me had the best answer from the start, but the crowd was not interested in new light and knowledge.

I don't know why no one commented about the podcast. The answers are in that podcast. But then, who has time to listen to a podcast that someone recommends? Most find it much easier to go with their own assumptions and see where it leads them.

Church leaders never said "fence sitting" in the War in Heaven, but "Less valiant" in the War. These less valiant spirits were punished by being born into the lineage of Cain, who was changed from a white anglo-saxon into the first Negro. Cain married his sister, and God went "poof" and she changed into the second Negro ever.

The Church is now saying, via LDS Public Affairs, "Some members may have believed that folklore, but it was never a doctrine of the Church."

They are lying.....as usual. The Curse of Cain Doctrine was taught as "a doctrine of the Church" for 130 years. Never repudiated until April 1st, 2008, in Gordon B. Hinckley's infamous "April Fools" speech during the Priesthood session of General Conference where he said "any man claiming that one has a right to the priesthood and another does not based upon skin color, or one who speaks disparagingly of another race, is not a disciple of Christ". According to Hinckley, ever Mormon prophet and apostle from Brigham Young to Spencer W. Kimball would NOT be a disciple of Christ.
http://markofcain.angelfire.com

keithb wrote:Has anyone ever noticed that, at least according to my knowledge, the Mormon church has never actually retracted the reasoning behind why blacks weren't allowed to have the priesthood? In other words, even though the 1978 revelation rescinded the ban on giving the priesthood to blacks, it never actually retracted or debunked the reasoning (as explained by the statements of several general authorities) behind the ban in the first place: that blacks were "fence sitters" in heaven.

To wit, does the Mormon church still support (or at least not reject) the statements of its previous general authorities that blacks were fence sitters in heaven? If not, what statements by general authorities can be cited showing this retraction of the reasoning behind the initial priesthood ban?