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The Correlation Committee continues to whitewash out the fact that JSJr's face being planted in the crown of his hat was a mechanism for translation.

Maybe the hokey, laughable image that conjures up is not the real problem. The real problem may be what supposedly was happening inside the hat crown. Words appearing in English supernaturally above a little stone that JSJr was staring at.

COJCOLDS wants members to believe that they can and do receive personal revelation from the same source, the Spirit, that was directing JSJr in the 'translation'. Members might not believe their own thoughts and self-induced feelings are coming from elohim/jehovah since such pale, on the natural-supernatural scale, when compared to the supernatural manifestations that JSJr claimed.

If COJCOLDS was up front, honest and blunt about the magic parchment above the stone in the crown of the hat, it might make members more easily doubt their own personal 'revelation'. Such have a natural explanation. They are palpably supernatural.

It also helps JSJr's claims he was a translator, if illustrations show him studiously looking at the gold plates while Oliver scribes it down. If JSJr is to be believed, then all he was actually doing was reading out loud from the magic parchment, as a 3rd grade school student is often asked to do from a book. So what? Big deal. elohim/jehovah were carrying all the weight, mentally, in that exercise. Leaves one wondering why JSJr's ego needed to have him arrogate to himself the title of 'translator'.

ETA: this link to a more concise, factually speaking, statement of the issue.

It is also a problem because it places the mistakes and errors in the book firmly at the feet of God rather than fallible humans like Jiseph, his scribes and the printer. Not to mention it eradicates the purpose of the plates.

"...troubling to the faithful.."

Yet it shouldn't be. Think about it: The rock-hat explanation is a supernatural, Chapel-Mormon-like explanation that exactly accounts for how the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on the earth as Joseph Smith said. It's not what story is less contradictory to science or the rest of the gospel message, it's what story the member happened to have been spoon-fed. If the spoon-feeding was rock in hat, then the member wouldn't be able to comprehend how it could happen any other way.

"…troubling to the faithful.."
heck it was troubling to this old jack Mormon

Gadianton wrote:"...troubling to the faithful.."

Yet it shouldn't be. Think about it: The rock-hat explanation is a supernatural, Chapel-Mormon-like explanation that exactly accounts for how the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on the earth as Joseph Smith said. It's not what story is less contradictory to science or the rest of the gospel message, it's what story the member happened to have been spoon-fed. If the spoon-feeding was rock in hat, then the member wouldn't be able to comprehend how it could happen any other way.

You're right. But somewhere in time after June 1829 the story (what was being spoon-fed to the Mormon faithful) changed from the face-in-the-hat, magic parchment account from the scribes to the subsequent gruel being spoon-fed to the members, i.e. the image of JSJr sitting at a table across from the scribe, studiously staring at the characters engraved on the gold plates.

The face-in-the-hat, magic parchment account is a visually supernatural event. What other explanation other than divine providence is there for magic parchment? With the inspiration-to-JSJr's-brain, newer version portrayed in the illustrations, there is the possibility that the thoughts in JSJr's mind were his own imagination, not inspiration from a separate, "divine" mentality. This newer gruel for spoon-feeding implicitly instructs the viewer not to expect to see magic parchment or a visage of god, but to accept ideas in the mind as coming from god when you pray and ask for answers.

When the Church went from the face-in-the-hat, magic parchment account from the scribes to the subsequent image of JSJr sitting at a table across from the scribe, studiously staring at the characters engraved on the gold plates, waiting for an idea to be planted in his head through 'inspiration' from god, the Church was not only telegraphing to members not to expect the miraculous, but also de-fanging the magical aspects of the restoration story. After all, we all have ideas come into our consciousness. The Church wants its members to think god is planting those ideas there, particularly when we've studied out a topic and earnestly prayed about it.

The Church's spinning of these facts makes it more palatable for investigators and questioning members to accept the 'translation' methodology, because we all have new ideas in our mind. All we have to do, per the Church, is attribute those to God. 'See the pictures of JSJr being studious as he's examining the characters on the gold plates? God works in subtle, seemingly natural ways, so it does not seem as foreign and easily dismissive. It allows the missionaries to tell investigators that god inspires each of them too, but that they need to attribute these ideas to god, not to their own mentality.

Drifting wrote:It is also a problem because it places the mistakes and errors in the book firmly at the feet of God rather than fallible humans like Jiseph, his scribes and the printer. Not to mention it eradicates the purpose of the plates.

Yes, the current Studious JSJr rather than the face-in-hat, looking at the magic parchment does give some "loose" translation wiggle room for apologists to explain away anachronisms in the Book of Mormon. The magic parchment holds elohim/jehovah's feet--and the feet of the apologists'--close to the fire of a 'tight' translation.

From the Church's and the apologists' perspective, the newer, Studious JSJr version serves their purposes better than the accounts of the mechanism of the magic parchment given by the scribes.

The hat trick is not troubling at all. In fact, I brought it up today in sunday school as a faith strengthing act. However, it should be noted that Joseph Smith himself did not describe the process this way at all. In fact, he did not say much about it. However we do have an account from Samual Richards much later and his description fits nicely with what the church stresses through art. If one types in how the Book of Mormon was translated into the search engine on LDS.org one can get an article from the ensign where the hat is mentioned. But so are the other ways it was claimed to be translated. Here is the richards statement:

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... um=2&id=41

According to Samuel W. Richards, Oliver Cowdery gave him the following description of the translation of the Book of Mormon:

He represented Joseph as sitting at a table with the plates before him, translating them by means of the Urim and Thummim, while he (Oliver) sat beside him writing every word as Joseph spoke them to him. This was done by holding the "translators" over the hieroglyphics, the translation appearing distinctly on the instrument, which had been touched by the finger of God and dedicated and consecrated for the express purpose of translating languages. Every word was distinctly visible even to every letter; and if Oliver omitted a word or failed to spell a word correctly, the translation remained on the "interpreter" until it was copied correctly.3

Also, it needs to be remembered that David Whitmer never said that Joseph Smith stuck his head in the hat. This is what David claimed:

In his Address to All Believers in Christ, David Whitmer wrote:

I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph would put the seer stone into a hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.

It needs to be remembered that both statements were made years after the event. But Joseph Smith's head was not in the hat as critic drawings show such as this:

http://www.imagesoftherestoration.org/b ... ingbom.jpg

Good point, Sock.

You know what happened to me when I first learned about the rocks in the hat thing? It immediately distanced Joseph Smith Jr. from all the other Mormon prophets. Suddenly, Joseph became this guy that opperated on a totally different wavelength than everyone else. The other prophets learned by "hearing the word in their heart" so to speak. This was, in fact, the way I supposed all prophets worked in recent history.

If Joseph looked at the gold plates and read the English words, he was simply listening to the still, small voice in his mind and responding. I could totally get that. Reading words on a rock in the darkness of a hat? WTH?

Here is what the church should do: teach youngsters that inspiration can come to us in ways other than still small voices in our minds and comfortable feelings. They should teach our children that God can also speak to us through tangible ways like words on rocks and stuff.

why me wrote:
Also, it needs to be remembered that David Whitmer never said that Joseph Smith stuck his head in the hat. This is what David claimed:

In his Address to All Believers in Christ, David Whitmer wrote:

I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph would put the seer stone into a hat, [b]drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; [/b]and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.

It needs to be remembered that both statements were made years after the event. But Joseph Smith's head was not in the hat as critic drawings show such as this:

http://www.imagesoftherestoration.org/b ... ingbom.jpg

Why Me I do not understand the distinction you are trying to make here. What is the difference between "face in the hat" and "drawing it closely around his face to exclude light"?

zeezrom wrote:
Here is what the church should do: teach youngsters that inspiration can come to us in ways other than still small voices in our minds and comfortable feelings. They should teach our children that God can also speak to us through tangible ways like words on rocks and stuff.

Without the urim and thummin the plates would never had been translated. No still voice at all was necessary. Joseph never gave details of the process itself. But what we do have statements from others about how this process was done, including Richards where oliver told him how it was done. No head in the hat.