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And the [Lamanite] king said: Is God that aGreat Spirit that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem? And [Nephite missionary] Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit,

Did you even read my post at all (post #9)?

I further point out that Ammon was mistaken for the Great Spirit, and yet he clearly had a physical body.

Obviously, being a "Great Spirit" did not preclude being corporeal.

And furthermore, the God which is being referred to here is Jesus Christ, who, at the time this conversation between Ammon and Lamoni took place, had not entered into mortality to receive a body. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with this verse either way.

MrStakhanovite wrote:MAD/MD&D Bernard Gui can't hold a candle to the real Dominican Bernard Gui.

Moreover, witnesses--if they are any--can be heard against such an individual. He himself can be constrained in various ways including limitation of food and being held in chains. He can even, on the recommendation of qualified persons, be put to the question in order to get at the truth, as the nature of the business at hand and the condition of the person may require.

It would take too long to describe in detail the manner in which these same Manichaean heretics preach and teach their followers, but it must be briefly considered here.

In the first place, they usually say of themselves that they are good Christians, who do not swear, or lie, or speak evil of others; that they do not kill any man or animal, nor anything having the breath of life, and that they hold the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ and his gospel as the apostles taught. They assert that they occupy the place of the apostles, and that, on account of the above-mentioned things, they of the Roman Church, namely the prelates, clerks, and monks, and especially the inquisitors of heresy persecute them and call them heretics, although they are good men and good Christians, and that they are persecuted just as Christ and his apostles were by the Pharisees.

Moreover they talk to the laity of the evil lives of the clerks and prelates of the Roman Church, pointing out and setting forth their pride, cupidity, avarice, and uncleanness of life, and such other evils as they know. They invoke with their own interpretation and according to their abilities the authority of the Gospels and the Epistles against the condition of the prelates, churchmen, and monks, whom they call Pharisees and false prophets, who say, but do no.

Then they attack and vituperate, in turn, all the sacraments of the Church, especially the sacrament of the eucharist, saying that it cannot contain the body of Christ, for had this been as great as the largest mountain Christians would have entirely consumed it before this. They assert that the host comes from straw, that it passes through the tails of horses, to wit, when the flour is cleaned by a sieve (of horse hair); that, moreover, it passes through the body and comes to a vile end, which, they say, could not happen if God were in it.

Of baptism, they assert that the water is material and corruptible and is therefore the creation of the evil power, and cannot sanctify the soul, but that the churchmen sell this water out of avarice, just as they sell earth for the burial of the dead, and oil to the sick when they anoint them, and as: they sell the confession of sins as made to the priests.

Hence they claim that confession made to the priests of, the Roman Church is useless, and that, since the priests may be sinners, they cannot loose nor bind, and, being unclean in themselves, cannot make others clean. They assert, moreover, that the cross of Christ should not be adored or venerated, because, as they urge, no one would venerate or adore the gallows upon which a father, relative, or friend had been hung. They urge, further, that they who adore the cross ought, for similar reasons, to worship all thorns and lances, because as Christ's body was on the cross during the passion, so was the crown of thorns on his head and the soldier's lance in his side, They proclaim many other scandalous things in regard to the sacraments.

Moreover they read from the Gospels and the Epistles in the vulgar tongue, applying and expounding them in their favor and against the condition of the Roman Church in a manner which it would take too long to describe in detail; but all that relates to this subject may be read more fully in the books they have written and infected, and may be learned from the confessions of such of their followers as have been converted.

Kevin Graham wrote:Over at the MAD forum Bernard Gui started a thread attacking Rob Bowman for misrepresenting the Book of Mormon teachings when some verses referred to God as a "Great Spirit." I think Bowman's point was that the Book of Mormon doesn't support the current Mormon doctrine that God is a being of flesh and bones. It in fact teaches the opposite.

Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

Ron Lafferty wrote:

Kevin Graham wrote:Over at the MAD forum Bernard Gui started a thread attacking Rob Bowman for misrepresenting the Book of Mormon teachings when some verses referred to God as a "Great Spirit." I think Bowman's point was that the Book of Mormon doesn't support the current Mormon doctrine that God is a being of flesh and bones. It in fact teaches the opposite.

No, actually it doesn't, any more than the Book of Mormon.

Really, Graham, your philosophical depth and rigor is as rice paper thin as the intellectual qualities you bring to most other discussions.

A simply object example of what the Book of Mormon teaches about the material and individual nature of God can be found by a perusal of the visit of Christ to the Americas by Jesus Christ in Third Nephi, or here, in this reference in the Book of Ether:

Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

Its more than clear just why Wade, Will, Gee, and a host of others in the apologetic community have simply given up talking to you.

Ron Lafferty wrote:
A simply object example of what the Book of Mormon teaches about the material and individual nature of God can be found by a perusal of the visit of Christ to the Americas by Jesus Christ in Third Nephi, or here, in this reference in the Book of Ether:

Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.