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As perhaps one of the greatest openings for religion to fill a gap is to explain how this world, this known universe, and we came to be. Mankind observes that things are in motion, and changing (dare I say, evolving). So what was their state beforehand and what caused the changes that resulted in the current state of things? And probably more pertinent, what forces are yet in play and likely to cause what changes will occur in the future?

Mankind wanted an answer. A super-human that created all this, as we might create a house and populate it with children, fit the bill nicely.

As science has unraveled many mysteries and will no doubt continue to do so until mankind becomes extinct due to climate changes however far out in the distant future, the need for this super natural explanation wanes.

With this backdrop, and the key intersection of man's wonderment about the 'creation' (supernatural, big bang, or whatever) with religion as a supplier of a theory in answer thereto, I am wondering what Mormonism's stance is on whether elohim/jehovah created earth ex nihilio or as a conversion of energy into mass? Asked another way, do elohim/jehovah have a limited quantity of energy at their disposal (whether stored as mass or in some other way we might not know about) and expended some of it to create this world by converting that sub quantity of energy into this mass?

Mormonism seems, as contrasted with other Christian sects, to have a history of limiting elohim/jehovah's godly powers, so I'm betting it is a conversion of energy into mass. But then that begs the question of where did that energy originate? Taking the easy answer, that the earth was created as mass as a conversion of energy rather than ex nihilio leads back to what? That all the mass/energy there is has always existed, it is just in a constant state of flux, ever changing. How is that satisfactory in an explanatory way if we're back to 'it's always been'? Had mankind simply accepted that, the ultimate answer, way back in Old Testament times, religion could have been avoided altogether.

The scripture says:
Abraham 3:24
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

God has made worlds without number, many of which have passed away and many that remain. He has said that there is no beginning or end to his words, or creation. So he must be utilizing the same material over and over again.

Why is this a problem for Ancient man? They never questioned the existence of God. Has anyone done research on atheism through the ages? Only since the rise of THE ACADEMY OF THE ANTI-CHRIST has mankind deliberately sought to deny God and set out to deceive people militantly by peer review sophistry.

Even in the day when Satan told the ante-deluvians to "believe it not" I think it was only the gospel that they were disbelieving and not the very existence of God. If you love Satan more than God it is not reasonable that you deny God in becoming carnal, sensual and devilish. Part of being devilish is to vaunt up more righteous than God.

Let me add to the list of things which God is subject to.

Free agency
Justice
Mass/energy

Membrane Theory or "M-Theory", which is an outgrowth of string theory, provides a nice resolution to the ex nihilo question / problem. According to some solutions in M-Theory, there exist multiple closely spaced membranes, or branes, to which strings (the ultimate constituents of matter) are attached, either by one end or by both ends. Our universe is but one of many that came into being as a result of a collision or contact between two branes. This hypothesis fits the data quite well and helps solve the problem of apparent singularity associated with the Big Bang (the rapid expansion of space at the birth of our universe).

Thus according to some possible M-Theory solutions the problem of "something from nothing" goes away. The "something" in this universe simply came from a now-inaccessible "somewhere else".

DrW wrote:Membrane Theory or "M-Theory", which is an outgrowth of string theory, provides a nice resolution to the issue. According to some solutions in M-Theory, there can exist multiple closely spaced membranes, or branes, to which strings are attached, either by one end or by both ends. Our universe is but one of many that came into being as a result of a collision or contact between two branes. This hypothesis fits the data quite well and helps solve the problem of apparent singularity associated with the Big Bang (the rapid expansion of space at the birth of our universe).

Thus according to some possible M-Theory solutions the problem of "something from nothing" goes away. The "something" in this universe simply came from somewhere else.

The next step in investigation is where else did the "something" come from, and from what?

This points to always existed, not ex nihilio 'popping' into existence from nothing.

As science digs back more steps, such as from Bib Bang to M-Theory, ex nihilio seems less likely.

As science digs deeper and is better able to account for more of the why a step occurred, the necessity of or a role for a god in causing the conversions seems less likely.

As science has unraveled many mysteries and will no doubt continue to do so until mankind becomes extinct due to climate changes however far out in the distant future, the need for this super natural explanation wanes.

Doesn't seem to follow. I predict that the well of knowledge is a bottomless pit; the more we know, the more we find out we really don't know.

I am wondering what Mormonism's stance is on whether elohim/jehovah created earth ex nihilio or as a conversion of energy into mass? Asked another way, do elohim/jehovah have a limited quantity of energy at their disposal (whether stored as mass or in some other way we might not know about) and expended some of it to create this world by converting that sub quantity of energy into this mass?

Mormonism rejects creation ex nihilo. But I do think of the Atonement and the work it does in terms of entropy. The less valiant and more sinful and unrepentant one is, the more difficult it is to draw energy from the Atonement and hence a lesser degree of glory is achieved. This could be why one cannot continue to advance any farther than one deserves. There is no more available energy because of one's choices; an equilibrium has been reached.

bcspace wrote:

As science has unraveled many mysteries and will no doubt continue to do so until mankind becomes extinct due to climate changes however far out in the distant future, the need for this super natural explanation wanes.

Doesn't seem to follow. I predict that the well of knowledge is a bottomless pit; the more we know, the more we find out we really don't know.

I am wondering what Mormonism's stance is on whether elohim/jehovah created earth ex nihilio or as a conversion of energy into mass? Asked another way, do elohim/jehovah have a limited quantity of energy at their disposal (whether stored as mass or in some other way we might not know about) and expended some of it to create this world by converting that sub quantity of energy into this mass?

Mormonism rejects creation ex nihilo. But I do think of the Atonement and the work it does in terms of entropy. The less valiant and more sinful and unrepentant one is, the more difficult it is to draw energy from the Atonement and hence a lesser degree of glory is achieved. This could be why one cannot continue to advance any farther than one deserves. There is no more available energy because of one's choices; an equilibrium has been reached.

That's a strange comment. Any mention of the quantification of the Atonement I recall from Mormon GAs was 'infinite'.

That's a strange comment. Any mention of the quantification of the Atonement I recall from Mormon GAs was 'infinite'.

It applies to all. It can cover all but the unpardonable sin. However, it is limited by the energy the individual qualifies for.