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If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 1992
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:11 pm
by _Buffalo
... would we be talking about the September Seven instead of the September Six?
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:12 pm
by _Drifting
Buffalo wrote:... would we be talking about the September Seven instead of the September Six?
If the JoD had been written in 1992 we would be talking about the September Twenty Seven....
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:15 pm
by _ldsfaqs
There's nothing "anti-mormon" about Rough Stone Rolling.....
It presents the facts objectively and fairly as LDS scholarship always has. (you don't actually study LDS scholarship, so don't laugh, brief comments on the web don't count)
What you don't understand is that there is a difference in using facts to lie and degrade the Church compared to indicating ALL the facts of an issue making it fair and balanced, and making no value judgments.
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:18 pm
by _Runtu
ldsfaqs wrote:There's nothing "anti-mormon" about Rough Stone Rolling.....
It presents the facts objectively and fairly as LDS scholarship always has. (you don't actually study LDS scholarship, so don't laugh, brief comments on the web don't count)
What you don't understand is that there is a difference in using facts to lie and degrade the Church compared to indicating ALL the facts of an issue making it fair and balanced, and making no value judgments.
Is "Mormon Enigma" an anti-Mormon book in your view? Just curious.
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:19 pm
by _Darth J
ldsfaqs wrote:There's nothing "anti-mormon" about Rough Stone Rolling.....
It presents the facts objectively and fairly as LDS scholarship always has. (you don't actually study LDS scholarship, so don't laugh, brief comments on the web don't count)
What you don't understand is that there is a difference in using facts to lie and degrade the Church compared to indicating ALL the facts of an issue making it fair and balanced, and making no value judgments.
Ldsfaqs---
Pursuant to your comment here, did Joseph Smith have sex with his plural wives?
___Yes
___No
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:15 am
by _zeezrom
Darth J wrote:
Ldsfaqs---
Pursuant to your comment here, did Joseph Smith have sex with his plural wives?
___Yes
___No
DarthJ,
In all of Joseph Smith's writings, he never mentioned the word polygamy. Therefore, fill in the blank. That is what Susan Easton Black told me after I asked the same question you just asked.
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:55 am
by _Runtu
zeezrom wrote:DarthJ,
In all of Joseph Smith's writings, he never mentioned the word polygamy. Therefore, fill in the blank. That is what Susan Easton Black told me after I asked the same question you just asked.
Didn't she say something to the effect of "All we have is the wives' testimony, so we can't be sure"?
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:22 am
by _zeezrom
Runtu wrote:Didn't she say something to the effect of "All we have is the wives' testimony, so we can't be sure"?
Well, she started off the conversation with the Joseph never saying polygamy thing. After I quizzed her again, she moved on to the women. For the record, she finally relented and agreed with me that Joseph did have sex with at least some.
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:24 am
by _Runtu
zeezrom wrote:Well, she started off the conversation with the Joseph never saying polygamy thing. After I quizzed her again, she moved on to the women. For the record, she finally relented and agreed with me that Joseph did have sex with at least some.
Of course he did. If you have 33 wives, what are the odds that you aren't sleeping with any of them?
Re: If Richard Bushman had written Rough Stone Rolling in 19
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:39 am
by _ldsfaqs
Darth J wrote:ldsfaqs wrote:There's nothing "anti-mormon" about Rough Stone Rolling.....
It presents the facts objectively and fairly as LDS scholarship always has. (you don't actually study LDS scholarship, so don't laugh, brief comments on the web don't count)
What you don't understand is that there is a difference in using facts to lie and degrade the Church compared to indicating ALL the facts of an issue making it fair and balanced, and making no value judgments.
Ldsfaqs---
Pursuant to your comment here, did Joseph Smith have sex with his plural wives?
___Yes
___No
First some distinctions.....
1. There is no evidence he practiced Polygamy, which is what he said. The only evidence is that he practiced the sealing ordinance. Sex however is a different issue.
2. There is no evidence that Joseph actually had "sex" with any of his sealed marriages.
There is "circumstantial" evidence with some testimony after his death, but that testimony is highly suspect given the circumstances (the Cain effect).
3. Given all the history I've read, the totality, I believe Joseph DID NOT have sex with any of his Sealings. However, I do allow the "possibility" that he might have with a couple.
My judgment is based on the fact that there is simply no "good" evidence of it.
I'm not going to slander someone based on suspect testimony and the rumor mill.
Even further, I've read testimony's of others associated with some of those "sex" testimony's which have claimed their testimony's are false, that they are familiar with the events in question. I've also read more concerning some of the "circumstances" in which a couple of sex events supposedly occurred (such as the barn event), and have found that the anti-mormon version of the event is actually false.
Basically, when I was an anti-mormon I believed Joseph did have sex.
But, since I actually have fully studied the history since, I believe differently now.