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In another thread Buffalo just replied thus to one of my posts:

Buffalo wrote:Yes, that is a huge red flag. I think Joseph, midway through, was also feeling a little insecure about the quality of the writing, hence the famous "The Lord gives men weakness that they may be humble" passage.

I think it's more than a little interesting to identify, and think about, various ways in which Joseph Smith may have been referencing himself, or his situation, in the Book of Mormon. In other words, little editorial bits or whatever which appear to have been inserted by Joseph Smith (or his collaborators, if any) into the flow of the text, due to his own modern thoughts, insecurities, etc.

Here's a few. Please contribute any more that you know about.

2 Nephi 3 "But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins... And thus prophesied Joseph, saying: ... his name shall be called after me; and it shall be after the name of his father."

This one is the most obvious. Wow, a seer will be raised up, named Joseph, whose father is also named Joseph. Thus sayeth Joseph, the guy translating the scripture. How could he have known?!

I like the one where Mormon (or Moroni, I forget which) says if the book has weaknesses, they are the weaknesses of man. I think that shows Joseph was a little worried about problems with the text, and wanted to short-circuit criticism of them.

I think the Moroni Promise is another good sign. If Moroni really existed, and really wrote that stuff, I find it odd that he would assume that A) what he wrote would someday be discovered and widely known, but that B) notwithstanding its discovery, many people would doubt that it was legit, and so C) he had to put something in there about it. I think it's a sign of insecurity in the modern author.

What others can you think of?

It's not the Book of Mormon, but he put himself in the Bible:

http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/jst/jst-gen/50?lang=eng

He also changed a section of Isaiah to include himself, then put it into the Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 27)

http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/Book of Mormon/2-ne/27?lang=eng

If you want to get Freudian, you can find him all over the Book of Mormon. Lots of people think Nephi is a stand in for Joseph Smith. To be honest, I don't think it's wise to engage in pyschological speculation, but lots of people do.

Wow, I hadn't seen that one from the JST before. That's awesome! Quite remarkable that Joseph Smith was able to "discover" prophecies telling of him, after the fact, through direct revelation. That's actually some really funny stuff. Thanks!

There are a few parts in the Book of Mormon where the guy writing promises, yea even pinky swears, that the book is true. Have there been any other ancient documents found where it says right on it "This is a genuine ancient document. I promise."

DarkHelmet wrote:There are a few parts in the Book of Mormon where the guy writing promises, yea even pinky swears, that the book is true. Have there been any other ancient documents found where it says right on it "This is a genuine ancient document. I promise."

Actually several of the Pauline epistles say exactly that...

Well, okay, not the genuine ones. The Deutero-Pauline epistles - the ones that are, in fact, pseudepigrapha.

The lady doth protest too much. Take note, forgers of religious documents - don't make a fuss about how your writings are really true, really ancient, really written by X. It's a dead giveaway.

Sethbag wrote:What others can you think of?

Let's say you are a professional historian engraving an important message on metal plates. You want to convey the idea, "21 years later."

Would you engrave the following?

And thus did the thirty and eighth year pass away, and also the thirty and ninth, and forty and first, and the forty and second, yea, even until forty and nine years had passed away, and also the fifty and first, and the fifty and second; yea, and even until fifty and nine years had passed away.

Sethbag wrote:Wow, I hadn't seen that one from the JST before. That's awesome! Quite remarkable that Joseph Smith was able to "discover" prophecies telling of him, after the fact, through direct revelation. That's actually some really funny stuff. Thanks!

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... chapid=785

Welch wrote:Caught on the horns of a dilemma, and having unwittingly fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 29, Anthon took the easy way out:

LOL! It wasn't enough to make Isaiah prophecy of himself and pa, but some random antiquarian. How do you think Charles Anthon is dealing with this in the afterlife?

How would you feel to have the most celebrated Hebrew Prophet predict that thousands of years later you, specifically, will get owned and made to look like a fool after some random email soliciting your opinion turned into a brief and immemorable squabble?

One has to wonder if any of the apologists have found instances of themselves being discussed in the scriptures. If the Bible directly references Charles Anthon, any of the Mopologists or even Doctor Scratch could be in there.

Sethbag wrote:Wow, I hadn't seen that one from the JST before. That's awesome! Quite remarkable that Joseph Smith was able to "discover" prophecies telling of him, after the fact, through direct revelation. That's actually some really funny stuff. Thanks!

2 Nephi 3 ascribes a prophecy to Joseph in Egypt about a descendant of his who would do some important stuff in the last days.

JST Genesis, produced later by Joseph Smith, put this same prophecy in so it could be quoted from the brass plates by Lehi in the Book of Mormon.

Although painfully self-referential, Joseph Smith seems to have accidentally hit upon a vein of Jewish lore that predicted the coming of a Messiah ben Joseph in addition to a Messiah ben David.

Here are a couple of quotes from a Wikipedia article on the subject, together with a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_ben_Joseph

Details about the Messiah ben Joseph are not found until much later, but he has an established place in the apocalypses of later centuries, such as the Apocalypse of Zerubbabel, and in the midrash literature—in Saadia's description of the future (Emunot we-De'Old Testament, ch. viii.) and in that of Hai Gaon (Ṭa'am Zeḳenim, p. 59). According to these, Messiah b. Joseph will appear prior to the coming of Messiah ben David. He will gather the children of Israel around him, march to Jerusalem, and there, after overcoming the hostile powers, reestablish the Temple-worship and set up his own dominion. Thereupon Armilus, according to one group of sources, or Gog and Magog, according to the other, will appear with their hosts before Jerusalem, wage war against Messiah ben Joseph, and slay him. His corpse, according to one group, will lie unburied in the streets of Jerusalem; according to the other, it will be hidden by the angels with the bodies of the Patriarchs, until Messiah ben David comes and resurrects him (comp. Jew. Encyc. i. 682, 684 [§§ 8 and 13]; comp. also Midr. Wayosha' and Agadat ha-Mashiaḥ in A. Jellinek, B. H. i. 55 et seq., iii. 141 et seq.).


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Apocryphally, prophecy about the Messiah son of Joseph is reported in one place to have been given first by the mother of Joseph of Egypt,[1] and also by Joseph, who stated that the Messiah of his lineage would restore true worship.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri