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--in both instances, they are beliefs for which there is no evidence or the evidence is contrary thereto.

It is fascinating how different society treats fantasies and those that entertain them, depending on the age of the person believing in them. For example, we let children believe in Santa Claus until a certain age, but if politically correct, we let people believe in a deity at any age.

Morning SP

sock puppet wrote:
It is fascinating how different society treats fantasies and those that entertain them, depending on the age of the person believing in them.

I know!
There are even some "adult" people who actually believe that everything came from exactly and completely nothing. :)

For example, we let children believe in Santa Claus until a certain age, but if politically correct, we let people believe in a deity at any age.

You're right. We should stop letting people believe in a deity.

Better yet, we should demand that they reject their current belief and exchange it for a belief that mirrors what others happen to believe.

(Gotta love the MDB!)
:)

Peace,
Ceeboo

There are even some "adult" people who actually believe that everything came from exactly and completely nothing. :)

Ceeboo,

Good Super-Bowl-Sunday Morning to you sir!

Could you please expand a little on what you wrote, above? Not entirely sure about whom you are speaking...

beefcalf wrote:
Ceeboo,

Good Super-Bowl-Sunday Morning to you sir!

Hi beefcalf

Thanks!
And a splendid Super-Sunday to you as well, madam!

Could you please expand a little on what you wrote, above? Not entirely sure about whom you are speaking...

Sure!

I was speaking (while using my enormously broad brush that I borrowed from the MDB shed) about any/all who do not happen to share my belief in a Creator/Deity.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Ceeboo wrote:
I know!
There are even some "adult" people who actually believe that everything came from exactly and completely nothing.

The alternative being that everything came from something (call it X). If so, wasn't that something (X) part of what we meant when we said "everything" in the first place?

{X}---explains-->{X, everthing else}

so in particular,
X ---explains---> X

does this get us anywhere?

Better plan:

Try to explain the complex in terms of the simple according to intuitive simple principles. Give up the quest for an ultimate explanation of everything in every sense.

Ceeboo wrote:Morning SP

sock puppet wrote:
It is fascinating how different society treats fantasies and those that entertain them, depending on the age of the person believing in them.

I know!
There are even some "adult" people who actually believe that everything came from exactly and completely nothing. :)

For example, we let children believe in Santa Claus until a certain age, but if politically correct, we let people believe in a deity at any age.

You're right. We should stop letting people believe in a deity.

Better yet, we should demand that they reject their current belief and exchange it for a belief that mirrors what others happen to believe.

(Gotta love the MDB!)
:)

Peace,
Ceeboo

Hey, Ceeboo,

Not quite my point. My point was that when a child believes in that for which there is no evidence, there comes a time we burst their bubble. But it is politically incorrect to point out the lack of evidence for beliefs if they are held by an adult. Depending on one's age and stage in life, they're 'sacred' (beyond reproach) or they are set straight because there is no evidence for them.

Hope you have an enjoyable Sunday, Ceeboo.

Take care.

Ceeboo wrote:I was speaking (while using my enormously broad brush that I borrowed from the MDB shed) about any/all who do not happen to share my belief in a Creator/Deity.

Yeah, Ok... I gotcha...

I suppose it probably is just a little niggling detail, but as someone who subscribes to the scientific conclusion of some sort of a 'big bang' being the likely origin of the universe as we currently see it, please allow me to weigh in here...

It is not my understanding that the big-bang theory asserts that suddenly everything came into being at that moment. I think the belief is that all the energy/matter (remember energy IS matter and vice-versa) that exists today also existed then; it was just compressed into a much, much smaller volume.

Anyway, wasn't sure if you were talking about ex-nihilo creationism or if you viewed the big-bang theory as everything coming from nothing.

There may be some cosmologists among us who may come along and point out the ignorance of my position, but that possibility has never stopped me before. ;-)

sock puppet wrote:Hey, Ceeboo,

Not quite my point. My point was that when a child believes in that for which there is no evidence, there comes a time we burst their bubble. But it is politically incorrect to point out the lack of evidence for beliefs if they are held by an adult. Depending on one's age and stage in life, they're 'sacred' (beyond reproach) or they are set straight because there is no evidence for them.

Fair enough!

Hope you have an enjoyable Sunday, Ceeboo.

Take care.

Thanks, Sock.

I hope you enjoy your Sunday as well. :)

Peace,
Ceeboo

Hi again, BC

beefcalf wrote:
Yeah, Ok... I gotcha...

I suppose it probably is just a little niggling detail, but as someone who subscribes to the scientific conclusion of some sort of a 'big bang' being the likely origin of the universe as we currently see it

"Scientific conclusion"?

Sounds to me like a rather long way of descibing a belief. No?

please allow me to weigh in here...

Please do (I always appreciate your contributions)

It is not my understanding that the big-bang theory asserts that suddenly everything came into being at that moment. I think the belief is that all the energy/matter (remember energy IS matter and vice-versa) that exists today also existed then; it was just compressed into a much, much smaller volume.

Yes, this is what my very novice understanding of the theory is too.

Anyway, wasn't sure if you were talking about ex-nihilo creationism or if you viewed the big-bang theory as everything coming from nothing.

I view the big bang theory as a theory (belief) that has some very serious challenges (Just like some very large challenges I face in my beliefs)

There may be some cosmologists among us who may come along and point out the ignorance of my position, but that possibility has never stopped me before. ;-)

My enormous ignorance has rarely stopped me from banging away at my letter keys, either. :)

(Rest easy, friend: I wouldn't worry too much about your theory/beliefs/scientific conclusions being questioned around these parts)

Edited to add: Still love your car! :)

Peace,
Ceeboo

Ceeboo wrote:Sounds to me like a rather long way of descibing a belief. No?

No.

Here is belief: "The universe was created in a cataclysmic explosion at the beginning of time"

Here is a scientific conclusion: "The universe was created in a cataclysmic explosion at the beginning of time. And we know this because all matter we can see is expanding away from all other matter at a known rate. And if we do some straightforward math, it appears that 14.5 billion years ago, everything we can see must have been in one, small place"

A belief can be holding something to be true despite contrary evidence, or in the absence of supporting evidence.

A scientific conclusion is holding something to be true because of strongly corroborated evidence which does not allow for an alternate interpretation.

There are lots and lots of reasons to believe that the big bang happened. The evidences which contribute to this conclusion can be detected and measured by any person of any faith or creed.

The belief that a God created us, loves us, and wants us to all return to him is not supported by any corroborated evidence.