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Probably half or more of the shops at Gateway Mall, about 4 blocks East of Temple Square, are owned by Mormons. At least half I would say. What will happen when City Creek Mall opens? Probably, Gateway is going to become a ghost-town.

The Church says that "no tithing is being used" in the City Creek project.

Like so many things the Church says....it is deceptive.

The Church receives tithing any given year, about 10 billion dollars. That money is not spent, but put into banks to draw interest for two years. After two years, the 10 billion is released to be spent by the Church on temples, chapels, Institutes, Church schools, missions, copies of the Book of Mormon, pamphlets, and in the not-for-profit businesses. Now...the "interest" on 10 billion dollars over two years, is probably a LOT. "That" is spend on "for profit" projects such as City Creek. Estimates the project will be 3 to 4 BILLION dollars once completed. Now, where does that money go? Most of it goes to for-profit construction companies. Who "owns" the construction companies? Find that out, and you'll know what all the billions are going to "for profit". You'll probably recognize some of the last names of the owners of these for profit construction companies.

So, City Creek is not being built on tithing money, but the "interest" on tithing money, since the Church puts it in banks to draw interest for two years before spending it. But the Church doesn't "say" that. The Church simply says: "City Creek is not being build with tithing money".

Does the Church really need another Mall? Does the Church "need a Mall" in the first place? If I were President of the Church, instead of a Mall, I would simply build BYU-Salt Lake City in its place, or maybe a hospital for children, but I wouldn't put a Mall there. The Church is trying to do two things:

1. Attract high-spending out-of-towner conventioners to the City Creek Mall, and hopefully they'll come over to Temple Square for a free tour. I can think of much cheaper ways to promulgate the Faith! 4 billion can buy a LOT of superbowl ads. If I were President, I'd create a Salvation Army like organization called "The Mormon Battalion" and use the money to help the poor and homeless. I'd use some of it to PAY for missionaries on missions, so their own families don't have to pay for missions along with their tithing on TOP of that. I used a billion to build Church schools in Africa or India where the kids have no schools, or maybe a hospital or two. But not a Mall. The Church doesn't need a Mall. Salt Lake City does not need another Mall. Gateway takes care of all the needs of Mall goers in downtown SLC. It would be a LOT cheaper to offer every conventioner a "free dinner" at their choice at a nice restaurant in town "if" they have a temple tour, rather than build a 4 billion dollar Mall in order to hopefully have them have a tour of temple square.


2. Lining the pockets of the owners of the for-profit construction companies who build the LDS Conference Center (300 million) and City Creek (3 to 4 billion). Hmmmmmm...I wonder, I just WONDER who the owners of these for-profit construction companies, who are racking up BILLIONS of dollars, happen to be? Hmmmmmm....?????? Any "Hinckley's" or "Monson's" or "Packer's" listed as the part-owners of those for-profit construction companies? Hmmmmmmm?????

I have had personal confirmation from someone on the inside of the LDS church that tithing money is, indeed, being used to pay for the City Creek Mall. But even if the church was being careful to segregate the money in different accounts, there is opportunity cost related to the building of the Mega Mall. The church could have used the $4+ billion to fund various projects related to its three-fold (or is it four-fold now) mission.

Unless the church is excluded from using the proceeds of for-profit ventures for religious purposes, the tithing/non-tithing distinction is irrelevant. The church is diverting funds away from its religious/charitable mission to build a mall. End of story.

Panopticon wrote:I have had personal confirmation from someone on the inside of the LDS church that tithing money is, indeed, being used to pay for the City Creek Mall. But even if the church was being careful to segregate the money in different accounts, there is opportunity cost related to the building of the Mega Mall. The church could have used the $4+ billion to fund various projects related to its three-fold (or is it four-fold now) mission.

Unless the church is excluded from using the proceeds of for-profit ventures for religious purposes, the tithing/non-tithing distinction is irrelevant. The church is diverting funds away from its religious/charitable mission to build a mall. End of story.

Open the books!

harmony wrote:

Panopticon wrote:I have had personal confirmation from someone on the inside of the LDS church that tithing money is, indeed, being used to pay for the City Creek Mall. But even if the church was being careful to segregate the money in different accounts, there is opportunity cost related to the building of the Mega Mall. The church could have used the $4+ billion to fund various projects related to its three-fold (or is it four-fold now) mission.

Unless the church is excluded from using the proceeds of for-profit ventures for religious purposes, the tithing/non-tithing distinction is irrelevant. The church is diverting funds away from its religious/charitable mission to build a mall. End of story.

Open the books!

Amen, Harmony!

What bugs me about this is that it doesn't matter if the money comes from investments. The money used to invest was from tithing funds.

And, if the Church is suggesting the wards to cut corners by cleaning their own buildings, and firing janitors, making an accounting for every scrap of food families in need take from the bishop's storehouse, yearly tithing settlements, etc.

We are members. It is our money being contributed. We deserve to see how that money is being spent.

We expect it to be helping our missionaries, supporting our ward activities, building our temples, etc.

liz3564 wrote:Amen, Harmony!

What bugs me about this is that it doesn't matter if the money comes from investments. The money used to invest was from tithing funds.

And, if the Church is suggesting the wards to cut corners by cleaning their own buildings, and firing janitors, making an accounting for every scrap of food families in need take from the bishop's storehouse, yearly tithing settlements, etc.

We are members. It is our money being contributed. We deserve to see how that money is being spent.

We expect it to be helping our missionaries, supporting our ward activities, building our temples, etc.

Liz, apologies if this is intrusive.
But have you mentioned this point of view to your relative in the Church and if so, what was their response?

Drifting wrote:

liz3564 wrote:Amen, Harmony!

What bugs me about this is that it doesn't matter if the money comes from investments. The money used to invest was from tithing funds.

And, if the Church is suggesting the wards to cut corners by cleaning their own buildings, and firing janitors, making an accounting for every scrap of food families in need take from the bishop's storehouse, yearly tithing settlements, etc.

We are members. It is our money being contributed. We deserve to see how that money is being spent.

We expect it to be helping our missionaries, supporting our ward activities, building our temples, etc.

Liz, apologies if this is intrusive.
But have you mentioned this point of view to your relative in the Church and if so, what was their response?

Unfortunately, I don't get to see him very often. He lives in Utah, and we are in NC. He only visits on rare occasions. The last time he came out, he was very tired, and just wanted to play with the grand-nieces and nephews...I couldn't blame him for that!

When he does come out again, there are several things I will ask him...this being one.

Since I don't pay tithing, I don't really care what the church does. I suppose if I paid tithing, I might be a little pissed, especially if I was from outside Utah and would get no benefit from that mall. Faithful members from a third world countries are sending money to SLC to fund a big investment project making a few rich Mormons even richer. The sad thing is, people who pay tithing are duped into wanting to pay tithing, so they are proud that their money is funding this mall. The dirt poor farmer from Chile can look at pictures of the Mall and be proud that his money helped build it.