What The LDS Church Tells Young Women

[_Quasimodo]

A summary of the Church's position on women:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__NGZsCdaxsA/T ... eguide.gif

I would show that to my wife as a guide to her behavior, but the thought of a broken nose prevents me.

[_Willy Law]

The ideal is for a woman's hopes and dreams to take backseat to that of her husband.

Seems like the church is not content to have a woman's hopes and dreams take a backseat, but for that backseat role to become your hope and dream.
Really upsetting when you see how serious most YM in the church take their education. Most of the YW that were in my wife's class were taking all AP and college courses, waking up for early morning seminary and involved in some type of after school activity. She really struggled teaching them that their "role" was to find a worthy priesthood holder and start popping out little priesthood holders.

[_quaker]

The pressure to marry and have children is immense. Certainly you see that.
The ideal that is perpetuated is to get married in the temple to a "worthy priesthood holder" asap and to not put off having children for worldly reasons.
The ideal is to be a stay-at-home mom. The ideal is for a woman's hopes and dreams to take backseat to that of her husband. He is the provider so his education and career are more important than hers. If hers are deemed important at all, that is.

Yes, there are mothers who work, but it is usually done apologetically. It is not socially acceptable to be a mother who actually ENJOYS working and WANTS to work. You may find a few women here and there who will say, I am better as a working mom and I enjoy it, but it is very rare in my experience.

It's also not socially acceptable to be completely happy and satisfied as a single. You have to want to get married, you are supposed to want to have children.

I see that it is taught to get married and have children. I see how it is taught to marry a worthy companion in the temple. Those are similar for both sexes and, given physical realities, the burden is equal shared.

My question is: What is more important to the women? Being a mother or a career?

I guess my question is whether or not women feel their educations/careers take a backseat because they are second class or if educations/careers naturally assume that role because they put a priority on bearing children?

The women I know struggle with the engrained 'get a job and make as much money as possible' they've heard all through school and their desire to have children. I don't see the judgment that's talked about with regards to the work/mother balance that is chosen. I'm wondering if this is because I hear mostly the men's perspective ? Are the women the ones putting the most pressure on themselves on this matter?

Whatever the case if career is used to determine a person's class then women who prioritize motherhood will be given the label of second class. I think that is unfair and demonstrate our collective warped sense of priorities.

[_DarkHelmet]

The pressure to marry and have children is immense. Certainly you see that.
The ideal that is perpetuated is to get married in the temple to a "worthy priesthood holder" asap and to not put off having children for worldly reasons.
The ideal is to be a stay-at-home mom. The ideal is for a woman's hopes and dreams to take backseat to that of her husband. He is the provider so his education and career are more important than hers. If hers are deemed important at all, that is.

Yes, there are mothers who work, but it is usually done apologetically. It is not socially acceptable to be a mother who actually ENJOYS working and WANTS to work. You may find a few women here and there who will say, I am better as a working mom and I enjoy it, but it is very rare in my experience.

It's also not socially acceptable to be completely happy and satisfied as a single. You have to want to get married, you are supposed to want to have children.

I see that it is taught to get married and have children. I see how it is taught to marry a worthy companion in the temple. Those are similar for both sexes and, given physical realities, the burden is equal shared.

My question is: What is more important to the women? Being a mother or a career?

I guess my question is whether or not women feel their educations/careers take a backseat because they are second class or if educations/careers naturally assume that role because they put a priority on bearing children?

The women I know struggle with the engrained 'get a job and make as much money as possible' they've heard all through school and their desire to have children. I don't see the judgment that's talked about with regards to the work/mother balance that is chosen. I'm wondering if this is because I hear mostly the men's perspective ? Are the women the ones putting the most pressure on themselves on this matter?

Whatever the case if career is used to determine a person's class then women who prioritize motherhood will be given the label of second class. I think that is unfair and demonstrate our collective warped sense of priorities.

I believe SAHMs are extremely important but society, unfortunately, tends to treat then as second class citizens. All my mom ever wanted to be was a mom. I don't think she was necessarily brainwashed by the church. She took great pride in her motherly duties. She had no desire to enter the work force. She is a great mother and grand-mother and probably a model that LDS leaders could point to as an example. But there are women who have no desire to be a SAHM, and no desire to bear children, and they aren't being influenced by Satan. The church has cookie cutter roles that they believe everyone can fit into, but people are different. Why should a genius level woman, straight A student with college scholarships give up her career opportunities and become a help mate to her C student husband who might have no real career ambition but is really excited about being a dad. Why not switch roles and let him stay at home and her work? And as for getting a job and making as much money as possible, that's not what a career is about. A career is about finding out what you enjoy doing and doing it. It doesn't matter how much it pays.

[_just me]

quaker, what you do is not what makes your "class." Being TOLD what to do is what makes your class. Being taught that your ambitions are not important, but are selfish and worldly, is the problem.

To please the Mormon god a woman must become a wife and mother. Her role as mother is supposed to bring her the most joy and satisfaction of anything available to her. This is taught to her throughout her childhood and into womanhood.

I guess my question is whether or not women feel their educations/careers take a backseat because they are second class or if educations/careers naturally assume that role because they put a priority on bearing children?

Education is important, but not as important as becoming a wife and a mother, so often times a young LDS woman will go to school UNTIL she becomes a wife and mother. At that time she will discontinue with her education and any career aspirations she may have had.
She then become a helpmate. Her husbands education and career become her dream and she throws herself into the support of that.

They put a priority on having children because that is what GOD wants them to do. They are taught that to please god they must become a mother. The church teaches not to put it off. So you have young women who are 18, 19 and 20 getting married and having children. This is the role they are TOLD to have and TOLD to be happy about. It's right there in the manual.

The women I know struggle with the engrained 'get a job and make as much money as possible' they've heard all through school and their desire to have children.

I guess these are not women who were raised LDS. I can't really relate. Do men struggle with the desire to have children and needing to get a job and make money?

Whatever the case if career is used to determine a person's class then women who prioritize motherhood will be given the label of second class. I think that is unfair and demonstrate our collective warped sense of priorities.

I don't think you are seeing the problem the way I see it. It is not motherhood that makes one a second class citizen. It is being TOLD what to do by men. Being given a strict role to play that may have nothing to do with the desires of one's heart. Also, being told to do things and fill a role that may be in direct conflict to one's best interests. Women who forgo their education and work experience to be a SAHM put themselves at higher risk for poverty.

Again, women are treated as second class citizens by men who tell them how to be a woman, how to be happy with the confining role that men have given them and that having a vagina precludes them from certain activities and occupations/positions.

The message is: You will get married and have babies and you will be happy about it.

It causes a lot of issues for all the women who follow that path and find themselves extremely unhappy. They try to pray more, attend the temple more, read their scriptures more...etc, but for some reason it just doesn't work.

[_just me]

Another thing...

YW are taught to prepare for the temple.to.get.married. It is all hinged together and focused on one thing-marriage.
The YM are taught to prepare for the temple first to go on a mission...then for marriage.

When I went to the temple for the first time at age 18, in preparation to getting married, I was taught that my husband would be the one to let me in heaven. This had a huge impact on me and I can still remember that exact moment.

A YW preparing to go on a mission is told that if she has a prospect for marriage to not go on the mission.

[_DarkHelmet]

quaker, what you do is not what makes your "class." Being TOLD what to do is what makes your class. Being taught that your ambitions are not important, but are selfish and worldly, is the problem.

To please the Mormon god a woman must become a wife and mother. Her role as mother is supposed to bring her the most joy and satisfaction of anything available to her. This is taught to her throughout her childhood and into womanhood.

I guess my question is whether or not women feel their educations/careers take a backseat because they are second class or if educations/careers naturally assume that role because they put a priority on bearing children?

Education is important, but not as important as becoming a wife and a mother, so often times a young LDS woman will go to school UNTIL she becomes a wife and mother. At that time she will discontinue with her education and any career aspirations she may have had.
She then become a helpmate. Her husbands education and career become her dream and she throws herself into the support of that.

They put a priority on having children because that is what GOD wants them to do. They are taught that to please god they must become a mother. The church teaches not to put it off. So you have young women who are 18, 19 and 20 getting married and having children. This is the role they are TOLD to have and TOLD to be happy about. It's right there in the manual.

The women I know struggle with the engrained 'get a job and make as much money as possible' they've heard all through school and their desire to have children.

I guess these are not women who were raised LDS. I can't really relate. Do men struggle with the desire to have children and needing to get a job and make money?

Whatever the case if career is used to determine a person's class then women who prioritize motherhood will be given the label of second class. I think that is unfair and demonstrate our collective warped sense of priorities.

I don't think you are seeing the problem the way I see it. It is not motherhood that makes one a second class citizen. It is being TOLD what to do by men. Being given a strict role to play that may have nothing to do with the desires of one's heart. Also, being told to do things and fill a role that may be in direct conflict to one's best interests. Women who forgo their education and work experience to be a SAHM put themselves at higher risk for poverty.

Again, women are treated as second class citizens by men who tell them how to be a woman, how to be happy with the confining role that men have given them and that having a vagina precludes them from certain activities and occupations/positions.

The message is: You will get married and have babies and you will be happy about it.

It causes a lot of issues for all the women who follow that path and find themselves extremely unhappy. They try to pray more, attend the temple more, read their scriptures more...etc, but for some reason it just doesn't work.

For some reason you got me thinking about a young woman in a ward we used to attend. She grew up in the ward, and her parents still attended, so everyone still treated her like brother so and so's daughter, even though she was in her mid-20s, a college graduate, software developer, probably made a decent salary, and she owned her own home and lived alone. She's a rally great person, but for whatever reason she hasn't found a man. From what I can tell, she seems like someone who has her life together, but I wonder how much pressure is being put on her to get married and have kids and move out of her parent's ward. How much pressure is she putting on herself? She is overweight, and self conscious about it, and she probably thinks that's the reason she's not married. It's unfortunate that someone like her (college graduate, computer programmer, home owner, all on her own) can't be used as a role model for young women. I think instead she is a cautionary tale.

[_Madison54]

Another thing...

YW are taught to prepare for the temple.to.get.married. It is all hinged together and focused on one thing-marriage.
The YM are taught to prepare for the temple first to go on a mission...then for marriage.

Agreed.

Watch this creepy video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4IBMEw0 ... r_embedded

[_just me]

For some reason you got me thinking about a young woman in a ward we used to attend. She grew up in the ward, and her parents still attended, so everyone still treated her like brother so and so's daughter, even though she was in her mid-20s, a college graduate, software developer, probably made a decent salary, and she owned her own home and lived alone. She's a rally great person, but for whatever reason she hasn't found a man. From what I can tell, she seems like someone who has her life together, but I wonder how much pressure is being put on her to get married and have kids and move out of her parent's ward. How much pressure is she putting on herself? She is overweight, and self conscious about it, and she probably thinks that's the reason she's not married. It's unfortunate that someone like her (college graduate, computer programmer, home owner, all on her own) can't be used as a role model for young women. I think instead she is a cautionary tale.

It is very likely that she is set up as a great example of living through a trial of faith-singlehood.

It has to be hard to be a single in a church that worships marriage.

I know that many singles are repeatedly asked by well-meaning old ladies if they are dating.
Women who are married but not pregnant are often asked when they will have a baby, or another one.

It can all be very painful. For some reason we can't just celebrate the lives we lead. We have to fit into some damn mold.

[Guest]

The reason why Church leaders want Mormon women to marry young is NOT because Church leaders are sexists (maybe they are, but that is not why they want Mormon women to marry young), but because the longer a Mormon woman puts off marriage, the "larger" her circle of non-LDS friends and acquaintances become, and the more likely she will marry and/or shack up with a non-LDS male.

Even today about 50% of Mormon women marry outside the Church, and this is NOT counting the Mormon women who "shack up" with non-mormon men but don't marry them. In all the Wards I served in while a missionary in California, all of them had more part-member families (i.e. LDS woman/non-LDS husband) than otherwise. Church leaders "notice" this, and for them it is a problem. So, they encourage women not to "put off" marriage, because if a Mormon woman is 18 to 20, chances are the "circle" of single males she knows is predominantly LDS. But, the longer she holds off, and gets a career or even a job pumping gas, the chances are GOOD she's going to marry some non-LDS guy she meets and marries or at least shacks up with.

Also, you must remember, that "attractive" Mormon women cannot seem to remain virgins past the age of 18 (and by "virgin" I don't mean "throat virgin") or 19 at best. Sure, fat Mormon women can remain virgins until the age of 150. But, attractive Mormon women WILL BE PLUGGED by the time they are 20. The Brethren would like their PLUGGERS to be their Mormon husbands, and not some non-LDS Alpha Male they meet at work (which is often the case).

In other words, if an attractive Mormon woman is not married by age 23, then she's either going to marry a Gentile man or she's gonna shack up with one (or...in the case of FAT Mormon women, she'll either shack up with a black felon or no man at all...ever). That's simply the "way" it is, and the Brethren know that and they're trying to do something about it. The early Catholic Church tried to get Catholics to NOT have sex except for procreation, but it simply didn't work. So, they gave up trying. Mormon leaders KNOW that "encouraging" young Mormon women to remain virgins until the age of 25 or 30 is utterly impossible (unless they are fat...then no Alpha male wants to plug them and so they remain UNplugged), so they know "encouraging" them to remain single and celibate until they finish college just doesn't work. So, the next best thing is to try to get them to marry early. The younger the Mormon girl is, the more likely she'll marry a Mormon male. The older she gets, the more likely she will NOT marry an active Mormon male.

I really don't think the "Brethren" sit around on Thursday afternoons in the Upper Room of the Salt Lake Temple and say:

"Hey, what more can we do to keep women submissive and under the thumb of men? Golly...I KNOW! Let's tell them to marry really young, that way they won't finish college, and men can control them better. Yeah....that's it! Go men! Go men!"

The Brethren certainly believe THEY are superior to women, but I doubt they sit around saying that on Thursday afternoons. More likely, they say this....

"Our women are marrying Gentile men if they don't marry by 20. Only 10 per cent of these Gentile men pay tithing. 89 percent of the LDS women in these part-member marries eventually go inactive. We have to reverse this. Let's encourage our young women to marry early. The younger they get married, the more likely they'll marry an active LDS male."