The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

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_Equality
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

Post by _Equality »

KevinSim wrote:The relevant scripture then, is Official Declaration 2, where Spencer Kimball said that "all worthy males" could now hold the priesthood.


Good point. Why didn't President Newsroom quote OD2 instead of the Book of Mormon scripture that the church ignored for 150 years and which lends equal support to the ordination of women as it does for males of sub-Saharan black African descent?
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_sock puppet
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

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Daheshist wrote:"The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question" it says:

"From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel."

"The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time."

"The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the pre-mortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality, and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the principle itself indicates that the coming to this earth and taking on mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintained their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure i.e. a Negro body is a handicap]; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes..... "Man will be punished for his own sins and not for Adam's transgression. If this is carried further, it would imply that the Negro is punished or allotted to a certain position on this earth, not because of Cain's transgression, but came to earth through the loins of Cain because of his failure to achieve other stature in the spirit world." (Statement of The First Presidency on the Negro Question, July 17 1947, quoted in Mormonism and the Negro, pp.46-7)

You just can't get any more "official" than a statment from the First Presidency! In 1947, a liberal Mormon professor at Utah State University, Dr. Lowry Nelson, wrote to the First Presidency asking if the Curse of Cain Doctrine was a doctrine of the Church, or just some "personal opinion" of Church leaders. The First Presidency wrote him back saying:

"Dear Brother Nelson:

"As you have been advised, your letter of June 16 was received in due course ... We have carefully considered [its] content; and are glad to advise you as follows:

"We make this initial remark: the social side of the Restored Gospel is only an incident of it; it is not the end thereof.

"The basic element of your ideas and concepts seems to be that all God's children stand in equal positions before Him in all things. Your knowledge of the Gospel will indicate to you that this is contrary to the very fundamentals of God's dealings with Israel dating from the time of His promise to Abraham regarding Abraham's seed and their position vis-à-vis God Himself. Indeed, some of God's children were assigned to superior positions before the world was formed.

"We are aware that some Higher Critics do not accept this, but the Church does. Your position seems to lose sight of the revelations of the Lord touching the pre-existence of our spirits, the rebellion in heaven, and the doctrines that our birth into this life and the advantages under which we may be born, have a relationship in the life heretofore.

"From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it is has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel. "Furthermore, your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and White races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now. God's rule for Israel, His Chosen People, has been endogamous [meaning 'marriage within a specific tribe or similar social unit']. Modern Israel [the Mormon Church] has been similarly directed.

"We are not unmindful of the fact that there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this are, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine. "Faithfully yours,

[signed]

George Albert Smith
J. Reuben Clark, Jr.
David O. McKay

The First Presidency

(John J. Stewart and William E. Bennett, Mormonism and the Negro," [Orem, Utah: Community Press, 1960], pp. 46-47; see also, http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/ne ... ither2.htm and lightplanet.com )

Lowry followed up with another letter to the First Presidency, dated 8 October 1947, in which he expressed his disappointment with the Mormon Church's officially, blatantly racist position. Dr. Lowry wrote: "The attitude of the Church in regard to the Negro makes me very sad. I do not believe God is a racist."

The First Presidency send another letter in reply which said:

"We feel very sure that you are aware of the doctrines of the Church. They are either true or not true. Our testimony is that they are true. Under these circumstances we may not permit ourselves to be too much impressed by the reasonings of men, however well founded they may seem to be. We should like to say this to you in all sincerity, that you are too fine a man to permit yourself to be led off from the principles of the Gospel by worldly learning.

"You have too much of a potentiality for doing good and we therefore prayerfully hope that you can re-orient your thinking and bring it in line with the revealed Word of God." (Stewart and Bennett, "Mormonism and the Negro," p.28)

Do Hamblin and Peterson have another Nelson Letter, wherein a non-ecclesiastical clerk at the office of the FP has faxed back to NAMIRS unsigned verbiage, initially fed to the clerk by NAMIRS, that the church has no position on African-Americans?
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

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RayAgostini wrote:
Daheshist wrote:Now, Ray, I must say: the Church is now saying "We never taught that blacks are cursed". The Church is lying. Simple as that. A True Church does NOT need to lie, and change its history. A True Church should only tell the Truth. Do what is right, and let the consequences follow.


I'm not seeing, anywhere, where they said "We never taught that blacks are cursed". I'm seeing admonitions to move on from what was erroneously taught in the past as "doctrine", and their reliance on the Book of Mormon as a guide in this, that "all are alike unto God". The foundational scripture of the Church.

They have "moved on", and the Church is now a multiracial body which doesn't discriminate on colour.

So, what is yet being taught as "doctrine" that future FPs will in the next 10 to 20 years want to move on from as erroneously taught in this era as 'doctrine'?
_Daheshist
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

Post by _Daheshist »

I can't see how a letter from a clerk over-rides a letter signed by all three Members of the First Presidency. I mean, if the First Presidency repeatedly calls something "doctrine" then I think its safe to say that it is "official Church doctrine".

The Church can now honestly say: "It is NO LONGER Church doctrine that Negroes are the cursed children of Cain".

But the Church isn't saying that. The Church is now saying: "It was NEVER Church doctrine that blacks are the children of Cain".

That's a lie. They are lying.


Do Hamblin and Peterson have another Nelson Letter, wherein a non-ecclesiastical clerk at the office of the FP has faxed back to NAMIRS unsigned verbiage, initially fed to the clerk by NAMIRS, that the church has no position on African-Americans?
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

Post by _Daheshist »

I have NO IDEA what you means by NAMIRS?????????


I can't see how a letter from a clerk over-rides a letter signed by all three Members of the First Presidency. I mean, if the First Presidency repeatedly calls something "doctrine" then I think its safe to say that it is "official Church doctrine".

The Church can now honestly say: "It is NO LONGER Church doctrine that Negroes are the cursed children of Cain".

But the Church isn't saying that. The Church is now saying: "It was NEVER Church doctrine that blacks are the children of Cain".

That's a lie. They are lying. The Church is trying to cover-up its racist past, instead of apologizing for it.

The Church today is like the Lying George Washington:

Honest George Washington: "I cannot tell a lie. Yes, I cut down the cherry tree. I was young, and foolish, and I regret it. I asked some of my low-born friends to help me, and they did. It was my idea. I take full responsibility for it. It was my fault. I apologize."

Lying George Washington: "No! I never cut down that cherry tree! Never happened! Some of my low-bred friends did it. I told them NOT to do it, but they didn't listen to me, and then they blamed me for it. But, no, some of my low-born friends did it, but not me!"
_Brackite
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

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Here is a Link to the 1949 First Presidency's Statement:
http://web.archive.org/web/200406051709 ... kprsen.htm
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Brackite
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

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Here is again the full 1949 First Presidency's Statement:


August 17, 1949


The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time. The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? it comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the Law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to."


President Wilford Woodruff made the following statement: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have."


The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege of is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes.


The First Presidency




It would have been a lot better if they instead quoted from Second Nephi Chapter 26 Verse 33, instead of quoting Brigham Young from the Journal of Discourses. It would have also been a lot better if the leaders of the LDS Church decided to end the Priesthood Ban in 1949, instead of waiting until 1978.
Here is Second Nephi Chapter 26 Verse 33:

2nd Nephi 26:33:

[33] For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.



The Priesthood Ban clearly violated Second Nephi Chapter 26 Verse 33.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_KevinSim
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

Post by _KevinSim »

Equality wrote:Good point. Why didn't President Newsroom quote OD2 instead of the Book of Mormon scripture that the church ignored for 150 years and which lends equal support to the ordination of women as it does for males of sub-Saharan black African descent?

Equality, are you talking about that verse 33 of some unidentified Book of Mormon chapter that Ray quoted up above? In that verse God was talking about people coming unto Him and partaking of His goodness; God wasn't talking about opening up His priesthood to every single soul in the world. A five-year-old child can come unto God and partake of God's goodness! Does that mean that God is obligated to give the priesthood to that five-year-old child, just because "all are alike unto God"?

On the other hand, OD2 specifically states that it's about the priesthood.
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_Brackite
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

Post by _Brackite »

KevinSim wrote:Equality, are you talking about that verse 33 of some unidentified Book of Mormon chapter that Ray quoted up above? In that verse God was talking about people coming unto Him and partaking of His goodness; God wasn't talking about opening up His priesthood to every single soul in the world. A five-year-old child can come unto God and partake of God's goodness! Does that mean that God is obligated to give the priesthood to that five-year-old child, just because "all are alike unto God"?

On the other hand, OD2 specifically states that it's about the priesthood.



The Priesthood Ban clearly violated Second Nephi Chapter 26 Verse 33.

Please Check Out And See:
viewtopic.php?p=564331#p564331
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_KevinSim
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Re: The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

Post by _KevinSim »

Brackite wrote:The Priesthood Ban clearly violated Second Nephi Chapter 26 Verse 33.

Brackite, did you read my post? 26:33 doesn't say God will give the priesthood to everybody. Do you think God should give the priesthood to the five-year-old child I mentioned?
KevinSim

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