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Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:23 am
by _RayAgostini
Oliver Cowdery's testimony:

*Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus: “These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’

“To notice, in even few words, the interesting account given by Mormon and his faithful son, Moroni, of a people once beloved and favored of heaven, would supersede my present design; I shall therefore defer this to a future period, and, as I said in the introduction, pass more directly to some few incidents immediately connected with the rise of this Church, which may be entertaining to some thousands who have stepped forward, amid the frowns of bigots and the calumny of hypocrites, and embraced the Gospel of Christ.


“No men, in their sober senses, could translate and write the directions given to the Nephites from the mouth of the Savior, of the precise manner in which men should build up His Church, and especially when corruption had spread an uncertainty over all forms and systems practiced among men, without desiring a privilege of showing the willingness of the heart by being buried in the liquid grave, to answer a ‘good conscience by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.’

“After writing the account given of the Savior’s ministry to the remnant of the seed of Jacob, upon this continent, it was easy to be seen, as the prophet said it would be, that darkness covered the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people. On reflecting further it was as easy to be seen that amid the great strife and noise concerning religion, none had authority from God to administer the ordinances of the Gospel. For the question might be asked, have men authority to administer in the name of Christ, who deny revelations, when His testimony is no less than the spirit of prophecy, and His religion based, built, and sustained by immediate revelations, in all ages of the world when He has had a people on earth? If these facts were buried, and carefully concealed by men whose craft would have been in danger if once permitted to shine in the faces of men, they were no longer to us; and we only waited for the commandment to be given ‘Arise and be baptized.’

“This was not long desired before it was realized. The Lord, who is rich in mercy, and ever willing to answer the consistent prayer of the humble, after we had called upon Him in a fervent manner, aside from the abodes of men, condescended to manifest to us His will. On a sudden, as from the midst of eternity, the voice of the Redeemer spake peace to us, while the veil was parted and the angel of God came down clothed with glory, and delivered the anxiously looked for message, and the keys of the Gospel of repentance. What joy! what wonder! what amazement! While the world was racked and distracted—while millions were groping as the blind for the wall, and while all men were resting upon uncertainty, as a general mass, our eyes beheld, our ears heard, as in the ‘blaze of day’; yes, more—above the glitter of the May sunbeam, which then shed its brilliancy over the face of nature! Then his voice, though mild, pierced to the center, and his words, ‘I am thy fellow-servant,’ dispelled every fear. We listened, we gazed, we admired! ’Twas the voice of an angel from glory, ’twas a message from the Most High! And as we heard we rejoiced, while His love enkindled upon our souls, and we were wrapped in the vision of the Almighty! Where was room for doubt? Nowhere; uncertainty had fled, doubt had sunk no more to rise, while fiction and deception had fled forever!


“But, dear brother, think, further think for a moment, what joy filled our hearts, and with what surprise we must have bowed, (for who would not have bowed the knee for such a blessing?) when we received under his hand the Holy Priesthood as he said, ‘Upon you my fellow-servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer this Priesthood and this authority, which shall remain upon earth, that the Sons of Levi may yet offer an offering unto the Lord in righteousness!’

“I shall not attempt to paint to you the feelings of this heart, nor the majestic beauty and glory which surrounded us on this occasion; but you will believe me when I say, that earth, nor men, with the eloquence of time, cannot begin to clothe language in as interesting and sublime a manner as this holy personage. No; nor has this earth power to give the joy, to bestow the peace, or comprehend the wisdom which was contained in each sentence as they were delivered by the power of the Holy Spirit! Man may deceive his fellow-men, deception may follow deception, and the children of the wicked one may have power to seduce the foolish and untaught, till naught but fiction feeds the many, and the fruit of falsehood carries in its current the giddy to the grave; but one touch with the finger of his love, yes, one ray of glory from the upper world, or one word from the mouth of the Savior, from the bosom of eternity, strikes it all into insignificance, and blots it forever from the mind. The assurance that we were in the presence of an angel, the certainty that we heard the voice of Jesus, and the truth unsullied as it flowed from a pure personage, dictated by the will of God, is to me past description, and I shall ever look upon this expression of the Savior’s goodness with wonder and thanksgiving while I am permitted to tarry; and in those mansions where perfection dwells and sin never comes, I hope to adore in that day which shall never cease.”—Messenger and Advocate, vol. 1 (October 1834), pp. 14—16.


JOSEPH SMITH—HISTORY Footnote

And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: 17Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried...


(Ruth 1.)

Thirty-seven years after joining the Church, and leaving it in 1987, I still seem to be a "DNA Mormon". The most peace and assurance I've ever known, was sitting in Mormon chapel, with friends and family, and feeling that mysterious "burning in the bosom", which seemed to "say", "this is the way, walk ye in it".

(PS: I'll probably not be back for a while, as I'll be very busy with work, but in the meantime - take care.)

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:14 am
by _Mary
I was looking forward to your posts and perspective on things Ray. Hope you continue to put your two penneth here.

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:12 am
by _Dr. Shades
It took guts to share that, Ray. Thank you for doing so.

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:23 am
by _RayAgostini
Dr. Shades wrote:It took guts to share that, Ray. Thank you for doing so.


Thanks. And thanks for allowing me to express my views here.

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:12 pm
by _Spurven Ten Sing
RayAgostini wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:It took guts to share that, Ray. Thank you for doing so.


Thanks. And thanks for allowing me to express my views here.

And mine, too.

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:02 pm
by _sock puppet
RayAgostini wrote:Thirty-seven years after joining the Church, and leaving it in 1987, I still seem to be a "DNA Mormon". The most peace and assurance I've ever known, was sitting in Mormon chapel, with friends and family, and feeling that mysterious "burning in the bosom", which seemed to "say", "this is the way, walk ye in it".

Hey, Ray. Given where I live, going into a Mormon chapel about 2X per year is unavoidable if I want to attend the funerals of friends and relatives. I don't get that feeling at all.

Most of my non-Mormon friends' funerals are either at a non-denom chapel in the funeral home, graveside or in a large, private room at a higher-end restaurant. However, one friend's funeral last April was at a Catholic church. Even at my age, I had never been inside a Catholic chapel. I was impressed, aesthetically speaking but more pertinently, emotionally speaking. The Catholic mass experience was nothing like I had been led to be believe growing up Mormon. For me and emotionally speaking, I found it comforting. Something that I have not felt in a Mormon church since the Joseph Smith bubble burst for me.

The emphasis on Jesus as compared to how incidental by comparison Jesus is in Mormon meetings was astounding. I got why Catholics might not consider Mormonism to be a Christian sect--just due to the difference in emphasis.

Both in the emphasis on Jesus and the emotional comfort feeling I experienced, I score Catholics 2, Mormons 0.

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:03 pm
by _RayAgostini
Hello, sock,

I was born and raised Catholic. I'm ever grateful to my father, who dragged me out of bed every Sunday morning before 6am, to attend Mass. I'll never forget those days. In those days the Mass was in Latin, but it changed while we were still going (Latin to English). My father was a deeply religious man, who converted from the Anglican faith to Catholicism because he believed that a Catholic Saint had saved him from death when he was a teenager. So I grew up Catholic, and attended Catholic schools. My father said his rosary (Catholic terminology, I suppose) every night, and was a firm believer in God.

I accepted Catholicism, to a degree, and I respected the faith of my parents (and no son/child ever had a better upbringing or home environment than I did, well, so I believe, anyway, and to this day love my parents for all they did for me, and the family paradise and love I experienced as a child). At age 20, I became a Mormon, and went on a mission. I wrote my parents every week, as suggested by "mission rules", but I enjoyed it, and I've saved some of my father's replies. They couldn't even conceive who Joseph Smith was, and why such a book as the Book of Mormon was even necessary, or that I had moved "beyond Catholicism" into something I felt had greater meaning. My parents died without ever realising why their "wayward son" became a Mormon, but they never once criticised me for it, and in his letters my father always encouraged me to "keep believing in God", even though he couldn't understand the faith I joined.

I will not denigrate Catholicism, because it was the faith I was born into. I'll only say it was a "stepping stone" to the faith I later adopted, which personally brought more meaning to me, if not my parents. Catholicism is ok, and it was the religion of my heroine, Joan of Arc, and so many other noble souls. It's well rooted in a noble tradition with a string of martyrs who dared to question. But for me, I think I'm Mormon to the core. I love it. I hate it. But it still strongly tugs at my heart-strings. That I cannot deny. Probably because of the Book of Mormon, of which I can never speak too highly.

To me, the Book of Mormon is "the word of God", the God I believe in, and if the Church ever wavers from that, I'll be its foremost critic. Well, that's how I see it, as self-righteous as it may sound. I'm really a nobody, so it probably doesn't matter what I think.

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:49 pm
by _consiglieri
The Book of Mormon has been the single most infuential book in my life, Ray.

Be careful out there.

We'll leave the light on.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:47 pm
by _RayAgostini
consiglieri wrote:The Book of Mormon has been the single most infuential book in my life, Ray.

Be careful out there.

We'll leave the light on.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri


The "world" has nothing to offer. Nothing at all. It's empty, and full of delusion, the "secular delusion" and dogma that death is the end.

That's my view.

With every moment, we shape our eternal destiny, and it's not inconsequential to be occasionally reminded that we have a mediator, even Jesus Christ, who is spoken about through the whole Book of Mormon, in more detail than any other scripture. I don't think that even Joseph realised what a powerful revelation he produced in this amazing book. I doubt he even initially comprehended a tenth of it, but went on with his Polygamy nonsense. If he had carefully read Jacob 2, he might have been enlightened, and that's where the current Church leaders stand - in harmony with Jacob 2.

31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.



Good night, all, and God Bless.

Re: Sometimes I almost feel "tempted" to go back to Church.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:59 pm
by _Jason Bourne
I still enjoy the Book of Mormon. But I do not view it as an real history and struggle to get my head around how I may be able to consider it inspired from God. If it did not come to us as Joseph Smith claimed how did it? If it came via some of the theories espoused what does that tell us? This is my struggle now in regards to the Book of Mormon. Ray or Consig, as two who are not TBMs but who still value the Book of Mormon what are your thoughts on this?

Ray I enjoy Catholic services. Living where I do there are lots of Catholics. I have been to many a mass-in connection with funerals, or wedding typically. I think were I not Mormon and I still wanted to be a Christian I would worship as a Catholic.