Droopy in Trouble on MDD over Race

[Guest]

Our own Droopy might wondering why he just gets no respect, and justifiably so. His latest thread on MDD was just closed after a stern warning from the mods (in red no less) that his OP against racism was, in fact, racist.

One needs to give the mods over there some credit on this one. Rather that simply erase the two contrarian posts that pointed out the racism in Loran's OP, they warned Loran himself, let the rather uncomplimentary posts remain, and closed the thread.

Sroopy's offending thread is short and it won't be getting any longer. And it is worth the short read.

Perhaps if Droopy really wishes to have the points in his OP discussed, he would be willing to post his OP over here.

Doing so might lead to some enlightenment for all concerned.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/57142-the-secular-religion-of-racialism-not-a-part-of-the-gospel/

[_Fence Sitter]

This paragraph is especially troubling.

If blacks are really our equals, then there is no need to insult them by begging the Church to apologize for actions that no living church members or leaders had any part, and for which the church itself has not admitted or accepted responsibility as to having actually done something wrong. There is no need to treat them like traumatized, emotionally fragile children who cannot themselves and for themselves work out, in their own minds and souls, the problems that must be negotiated in understanding and accepting this aspect of Church history, not the least of which is working through this spiritually, through prayer and revelation.

By this reasoning we shouldn't apologize to the US Japanese who were confined in concentration camps and had their property stolen in WW2 because they don't need to be treated "like traumatized, emotionally fragile children." If the Japanese could only see it from our side they would understand why it was necessary and not racist.

[_Chap]

This paragraph is especially troubling.

If blacks are really our equals, then there is no need to insult them by begging the Church to apologize for actions that no living church members or leaders had any part, and for which the church itself has not admitted or accepted responsibility as to having actually done something wrong. There is no need to treat them like traumatized, emotionally fragile children who cannot themselves and for themselves work out, in their own minds and souls, the problems that must be negotiated in understanding and accepting this aspect of Church history, not the least of which is working through this spiritually, through prayer and revelation.

By this reasoning we shouldn't apologize to the US Japanese who were confined in concentration camps and had their property stolen in WW2 because they don't need to be treated "like traumatized, emotionally fragile children." If the Japanese could only see it from our side they would understand why it was necessary and not racist.

Nice, isn't it? Similarly, it was wrong of Willy Brandt to treat the Jews like "traumatized, emotionally fragile children" by kneeling at the monument to the Warsaw Ghetto rising to express regret on behalf of the German people for what had been done to them:



After all, he never killed any Jews, now would he have approved of anybody else doing so.

[_just me]

Nice, isn't it? Similarly, it was wrong of Willy Brandt to treat the Jews like "traumatized, emotionally fragile children" by kneeling at the monument to the Warsaw Ghetto rising to express regret on behalf of the German people for what had been done to them:



After all, he never killed any Jews, now would he have approved of anybody else doing so.

That is stunningly beautiful.

I wonder what the Pope was thinking apologizing for the sins of the Catholic church in 2000.

I mean, everyone knows that people hate to be apologized to. Er, um...oops.

[_Stormy Waters]

I think you all should apologize to Droopy.

[_Chap]

That is stunningly beautiful.

I wonder what the Pope was thinking apologizing for the sins of the Catholic church in 2000.

I mean, everyone knows that people hate to be apologized to. Er, um...oops.

Sincere apologies for admitted wrong done to another can be beautiful, both in themselves and in what they do for future relationships. They often make the side that expresses the apology look stronger and better than it could ever have otherwise seemed.

If only the CoJCoLDS could, through its living prophet, say something like this:

In 1978 the Prophet and Apostles of the Church were overjoyed to receive a clear and unambiguous revelation from the Lord, instructing them to abolish the racial barrier that had previously prevented black men and their families from enjoying all the blessings of the priesthood that it is the Church's sole privilege to offer to worthy men.

Prior to that date, earlier prophets in the 19th and 20th century had taught that it was the Lord's will that membership of a particular race should be a barrier to the priesthood. We know now that this was a mistake - a terrible mistake, based on human prejudices common in those times, and one that must have been a sore trial to many devoted members of the Church. No leader of the church is more than human, and although church leaders try sincerely to discern the Lord's will in all things, they can go astray from time to time, and their teaching may have to be corrected, perhaps by later revelation. Through the Lord's mercy, that is what happened in this case.

While it is a joy to us to proclaim that the Lord has led his Church onto the right path, it is a matter of deep sorrow and regret to the whole Church today that for so long so many worthy men and their families did not have the blessings they could and should have had. Those who erred were our brothers, and we know that the Lord has by now shown them a better way. We are now proud to do on their behalf what they can no longer do in their mortal bodies, and offer our sincere apologies to those who suffered from this unjust ban.

But that of course they can never say: while the apology would, from the point of view of most non-Mormons, be a graceful and healing gesture, from the point of view of many ordinary Mormons it would also be a dangerous admission to the membership that a prophet and his apostles can and have led the church astray in an important respect, and could do so again.

Too risky, that ... I mean, what other mistakes might they still be making?

[Guest]

I think you all should apologize to Droopy.

And I think Droopy could do with some race sensitivity training. I am not talking about the enlightened liberal classroom kind of race sensitivity training.

I am talking about going out on night patrol and having his badly wounded ass hauled to safety by one or more of the emotionally traumatized (six foot 250 pound) children he seems to dismiss so readily in his OP.

[_Fence Sitter]

Sincere apologies for admitted wrong done to another can be beautiful, both in themselves and in what they do for future relationships. They often make the side that expresses the apology look stronger and better than it could ever have otherwise seemed.

If only the CoJCoLDS could, through its living prophet, say something like this:

In 1978 the Prophet and Apostles of the Church were overjoyed to receive a clear and unambiguous revelation from the Lord, instructing them to abolish the racial barrier that had previously prevented black men and their families from enjoying all the blessings of the priesthood that it is the Church's sole privilege to offer to worthy men.

Prior to that date, earlier prophets in the 19th and 20th century had taught that it was the Lord's will that membership of a particular race should be a barrier to the priesthood. We know now that this was a mistake - a terrible mistake, based on human prejudices common in those times, and one that must have been a sore trial to many devoted members of the Church. No leader of the church is more than human, and although church leaders try sincerely to discern the Lord's will in all things, they can go astray from time to time, and their teaching may have to be corrected, perhaps by later revelation. Through the Lord's mercy, that is what happened in this case.

While it is a joy to us to proclaim that the Lord has led his Church onto the right path, it is a matter of deep sorrow and regret to the whole Church today that for so long so many worthy men and their families did not have the blessings they could and should have had. Those who erred were our brothers, and we know that the Lord has by now shown them a better way. We are now proud to do on their behalf what they can no longer do in their mortal bodies, and offer our sincere apologies to those who suffered from this unjust ban.

But that of course they can never say: while the apology would, from the point of view of most non-Mormons, be a graceful and healing gesture, from the point of view of many ordinary Mormons it would also be a dangerous admission to the membership that a prophet and his apostles can and have led the church astray in an important respect, and could do so again.

Too risky, that ... I mean, what other mistakes might they still be making?

Exactly. The implications of such a statement on the Church's current stance on Gay membership and marriage would be obvious, not to mention women and the priesthood. Of course such an admission would also be prima facie evidence that doctrine, as understood at the highest levels of the Church, does change from one generation to the next.

[_DrW]

Sorry, Chap.

I seem to be a bit behind the power curve here. Did you write the statement qouted below?

In 1978 the Prophet and Apostles of the Church were overjoyed to receive a clear and unambiguous revelation from the Lord, instructing them to abolish the racial barrier that had previously prevented black men and their families from enjoying all the blessings of the priesthood that it is the Church's sole privilege to offer to worthy men.

Prior to that date, earlier prophets in the 19th and 20th century had taught that it was the Lord's will that membership of a particular race should be a barrier to the priesthood. We know now that this was a mistake - a terrible mistake, based on human prejudices common in those times, and one that must have been a sore trial to many devoted members of the Church. No leader of the church is more than human, and although church leaders try sincerely to discern the Lord's will in all things, they can go astray from time to time, and their teaching may have to be corrected, perhaps by later revelation. Through the Lord's mercy, that is what happened in this case.

While it is a joy to us to proclaim that the Lord has led his Church onto the right path, it is a matter of deep sorrow and regret to the whole Church today that for so long so many worthy men and their families did not have the blessings they could and should have had. Those who erred were our brothers, and we know that the Lord has by now shown them a better way. We are now proud to do on their behalf what they can no longer do in their mortal bodies, and offer our sincere apologies to those who suffered from this unjust ban.

Just curious.

Thanks.

[_Chap]

Sorry, Chap.

I seem to be a bit behind the power curve here. Did you write the statement qouted below?

In 1978 the Prophet and Apostles of the Church were overjoyed to receive a clear and unambiguous revelation from the Lord, instructing them to abolish the racial barrier that had previously prevented black men and their families from enjoying all the blessings of the priesthood that it is the Church's sole privilege to offer to worthy men.

Prior to that date, earlier prophets in the 19th and 20th century had taught that it was the Lord's will that membership of a particular race should be a barrier to the priesthood. We know now that this was a mistake - a terrible mistake, based on human prejudices common in those times, and one that must have been a sore trial to many devoted members of the Church. No leader of the church is more than human, and although church leaders try sincerely to discern the Lord's will in all things, they can go astray from time to time, and their teaching may have to be corrected, perhaps by later revelation. Through the Lord's mercy, that is what happened in this case.

While it is a joy to us to proclaim that the Lord has led his Church onto the right path, it is a matter of deep sorrow and regret to the whole Church today that for so long so many worthy men and their families did not have the blessings they could and should have had. Those who erred were our brothers, and we know that the Lord has by now shown them a better way. We are now proud to do on their behalf what they can no longer do in their mortal bodies, and offer our sincere apologies to those who suffered from this unjust ban.

Just curious.

Thanks.

Yup. I used to do God-talk quite a lot, and all I had to do was channel my old self with a slight change in orchestration to give it a more LDS sound. I am of course sure that a knowledgeable exmo could have done a more authentic-seeming job.