DiscussMormonism.com

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7655 ... -fact.html

I share with you a true story that my friend and former neighbor Ken McCarty shared with me.

"I was kneeling by my bed, saying my prayers," Sarah replied. "Suddenly I felt someone standing behind me. Then I realized it was Kerie. Kerie was in my room."

"What did Kerie say?"

Sarah responded that Kerie hadn't talked out loud, explaining that, in her heart, she could hear Kerie say that she had come to tell Sarah not to be afraid to die, that dying wasn't scary, it was beautiful.

"Kerie didn't want me to worry about her; she wanted me to know that she was very happy in heaven."

Of course, this story contradicts LDS theology about the afterlife.

I share with you a true story that my friend and former neighbor Ken McCarty shared with me.

I am always skeptical of people that must distinguish their normal tales with "now this is really a true story." It's an old Paul H Dunn trick.

Buffalo wrote:
Of course, this story contradicts LDS theology about the afterlife.

How?

that dying wasn't scary, it was beautiful.

Now there's a thought religious people can really get behind, and when they do, watch for flying bullets.

Darth J wrote:

Buffalo wrote:
Of course, this story contradicts LDS theology about the afterlife.

How?

She went straight to heaven, bypassing spirit paradise.

Buffalo wrote:
She went straight to heaven, bypassing spirit paradise.

You don't think maybe, in this context, "heaven" refers generically to the spirit world?

Faithful Mormons also talk a lot about the "pre-existence." This is a very common colloquial term, but it also contradicts LDS theology if taken literally. According to LDS teachings, there was never a time when matter or intelligence did not exist, so there could not be a time "before" we existed. The technically correct term would be "pre-mortal existence." But if you say "pre-existence" in LDS circles, everyone knows what you mean.

Do you seriously believe the statement in the context of this story to be an assertion that this girl was already in the Celestial Kingdom, and would be understood that way by believing Mormons?

And even if you do want to be hypertechnical like that, then hypertechnically that is not actually precluded by LDS theology. According to D&C 132, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have already attained godhood---meaning they entered the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom---even though a general resurrection and final judgment of the entire human race has not happened.

Darth J wrote:

Buffalo wrote:
She went straight to heaven, bypassing spirit paradise.

You don't think maybe, in this context, "heaven" refers generically to the spirit world?

Faithful Mormons also talk a lot about the "pre-existence." This is a very common colloquial term, but it also contradicts LDS theology if taken literally. According to LDS teachings, there was never a time when matter or intelligence did not exist, so there could not be a time "before" we existed. The technically correct term would be "pre-mortal existence." But if you say "pre-existence" in LDS circles, everyone knows what you mean.

Do you seriously believe the statement in the context of this story to be an assertion that this girl was already in the Celestial Kingdom, and would be understood that way by believing Mormons?

And even if you do want to by hypertechnical like that, then hypertechnically that is not actually precluded by LDS theology. According to D&C 132, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have already attained godhood---meaning they entered the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom---even though a general resurrection and final judgment of the entire human race has not happened.

I suppose it's ambiguous enough to mean either paradise or the Celestial Kingdom. But it's curious that the recently departed departed from accepted LDS terminology.

Buffalo wrote:I suppose it's ambiguous enough to mean either paradise or the Celestial Kingdom. But it's curious that the recently departed departed from accepted LDS terminology.

And as long as we're going this way, maybe she was saying she was happy in the Telestial Kingdom. Certainly a faithful Mormon familiar with the Plan of Salvation would have inferred that from the context of the story, right?

“Chapter 26: The Three Kingdoms of Heaven: 16 February 1832,” Doctrine and Covenants Stories, 97

There are three places, or kingdoms, for people to go in heaven.

Gospel Principles, Chapter 47

Jesus taught, "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2). From the scriptures we learn that there are three kingdoms of glory in heaven. The Apostle Paul mentioned that he knew a man who was "caught up to the third heaven" (2 Corinthians 12:2). Paul named two of the kingdoms in heaven: the celestial and the terrestrial (see 1 Corinthians 15:40-42). The celestial is the highest, and the terrestrial is second. Through latter-day revelation we learn that the third kingdom is the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:81).

Darth J wrote:

Buffalo wrote:I suppose it's ambiguous enough to mean either paradise or the Celestial Kingdom. But it's curious that the recently departed departed from accepted LDS terminology.

And as long as we're going this way, maybe she was saying she was happy in the Telestial Kingdom. Certainly a faithful Mormon familiar with the Plan of Salvation would have inferred that from the context of the story, right?

“Chapter 26: The Three Kingdoms of Heaven: 16 February 1832,” Doctrine and Covenants Stories, 97

There are three places, or kingdoms, for people to go in heaven.

Gospel Principles, Chapter 47

Jesus taught, "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2). From the scriptures we learn that there are three kingdoms of glory in heaven. The Apostle Paul mentioned that he knew a man who was "caught up to the third heaven" (2 Corinthians 12:2). Paul named two of the kingdoms in heaven: the celestial and the terrestrial (see 1 Corinthians 15:40-42). The celestial is the highest, and the terrestrial is second. Through latter-day revelation we learn that the third kingdom is the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:81).

Only the FLDS go to the Celestial Kingdom, of course, as only polygamists with at least three wives are allowed in.

Buffalo wrote:
I suppose it's ambiguous enough to mean either paradise or the Celestial Kingdom. But it's curious that the recently departed departed from accepted LDS terminology.

How do you know they did? It supposedly comes from a small girl to her parents then to DCP. What happened at each of these stages that could change the story. Has memories of the event been changed. What kind of mental filters were used in the girls experience, and then the parents. We know so little of this story or so many other things about the world around us that the most reasonable thing to do is smile and not worry about it. Even most believers will probably be skeptical of it to some degree.