Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

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_sock puppet
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Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _sock puppet »

The Mormonism I was indoctrinated with for the first 25 years of my life included the notion that our genders were not, spiritually speaking, arbitrary or incidental to our existence as either spirits or mortals. Rather, they are purposeful in the eternal scheme of things, if not also assigned by god.

I think that this is a notion carried forward from the past, from a time prior to the development in detail of the explanatory theory of evolution. It was one of those religious explanations that, like all of them, ends with the intellectual cul-de-sac that it is one of 'god's mysteries' that will be explained in due time. It once provided the 'answer' to a human question that empirical observation, logic and science had not then figured out.

'God's mysteries' was an explanation before the time there was significant biological study of simplistic life forms (genetically and otherwise) that are asexual and reproduce without partnering with another of the same species. Before it was observed (and explained) that higher, more complicated organisms' sexual reproduction evolved to make the offspring stronger by splicing two sets of genes together (avoiding the frailties of 'inbreeding'). Before it was realized that gender differentiation and the need of higher organisms to sexually interact to reproduce was part of the evolutionary process. (by the way, I for one find that life is much more enjoyable because of the sexual desires and relations :cool: that go with this biological mechanism that has evolved for splicing genes together to build stronger offspring. The points of this post are not to dismiss to any degree or extent the actual differences between the genders, just to highlight the absurdity of the religious explanation for their being two genders and 'god's' disparate treatment of the genders.)

In light of the scientific explanation, the religious one has become an archaic absurdity.

The Mormonism version of the god's mysteries for gender assignment has included that this assignment is an eternal assignment. If you are male in this mortal existence, then you will be male for eternity in the CK, for example. Jehovah and Lucifer were 'sons' (gender-specific offspring) of Elohim (and unnamed mother(s) in heaven) in the pre-existence, before Jehovah got a physical body (and Lucifer still has not). So this assignment even predates conception and birth into mortality, these assignments pertained in the spiritual pre-existence. These gender assignments have, per Mormonism, some eternal consequence, extending in time both pre- and post-mortality.

So if animals are of relatively little spiritual consequence that we may use them for human purposes, including killing and eating animals for human pleasure (human life can be sustained by being a vegetarian--cf. LDS Mormonism having set up and maintaining a for-pay hunting preserve), why are animals given these same/specific/significant spiritual assignments of gender, male and female, in the Mormon scheme of things? If so incidental to humans, why would animals be imbued with these sacred assignments of gender?

The female gender of many, but not all, species is the more nurturing. This depends in part on the practicalities of life faced by that species. After conception, the males of some specifies play a significant role in the gestation. For example, after the emperor penguin female lays the egg, the male takes over caring for the egg until the chick has developed to the point that it emerges from egg shell. In the human species, the female handles the gestation (often absent the male) and is the primary nurturer for the child in the early years of development after live birth.

If god thought only one human gender was worthy to entrust with his power (priesthood), why would it not be the more nurturing-inclined of the two genders? Isn't nurturing of us, god's children, a quality that is ascribed to god? Does that suggest that the real gender of god may be, as my friend zeezrom is inclined to hope, female?

Is the fact that some religions (e.g., LDS Mormonism) are hanging on to the old, archaic and sexist notion that the male gender has some religious significance that god would only entrust his power to males evidence that such religions are outmoded and marginalizing themselves over time, as mankind learns more about its circumstances and is able to better explain them?

It took LDS Mormonism until 1978 to realize it was outmoded and marginalizing itself with respect to the denial of the priesthood to blacks, even though the United States had passed the 14th Amendment on July 9, 1868, giving legal voice to the notion that governments should not be racist. The LDS Mormons tenaciously argued for another 109 years, 11 months, until 1978, that god was behind the LDS Mormons' racism and some LDS Mormons even today yet argue god was, for some inexplicable reason or only yet indefensible racist reasons, before 1978, rather than acknowledge the obvious that the LDS Mormon leaders were just claiming it was 'god' when those leaders were claiming as theological doctrine the mere notions of them as men.

The equal rights amendment did not pass, but gender equality under the law has nonetheless become quite pervasive. How many years will the LDS Mormons continue to claim that their god doesn't trust women to be authorized to exercise god's power? How outmoded and archaic will the LDS Mormons have to become before their god realizes the advanced morality of humans?

ETA: Cleaning up grammatical, syntactical and spelling errors.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_zeezrom
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _zeezrom »

Excellent!
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Nightlion
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _Nightlion »

Thanks for posting some interesting considerations. You know I have done some thinking on gender origins and it had fully escaped my notice that Satan was called a Son of Morning and that he was in authority with God as it bears upon the gender assignment rationale I have considered of late. I considered that gender assignment originated with seed body birth. However, now it is made to appear not so.

I had put on the self the determination of why one becomes male and another female as an unknown. But thanks be to Sock Puppet I must take this down and ponder. The only scripture I can think of that bears upon this is in the beloved Book of Abraham:

Abraham 3:
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Was then this designation of RULER status assignment to the male gender? Was it that and also those given to Christ of the Father from the beginning whom no man can pluck out of his hand. Hence an estate or right to an inheritance with God. We have to keep in mind that in the beginning was the organization of intelligences. Not only were uncreated light and truth given an independent sphere of existence, they were also organized as to who would rule and that organization continued under such leadership for who knows how long. It could have been a very long time, if time was even a consideration for them, as it is for us. But the passage of what we call time must have had some measure.

More to the point, though, by designating rulers and thereby priesthood authority and son status, Christ being the Only Begotten of the Father, hence all others were begotten presumably of Christ called sons of the morning or of the first organization and given an estate then the priesthood was for organizational purposes. We can go through all the purposes of why the male rules over the women later I suppose.

This give me pause to consider that once given a responsibility as ruler we were to then magnify that office and calling and man up as it were to carry forth our duty and learn to be men. If the choice was made of God as to whom was seen as GOOD which was considered both NOBLE and GREAT what manner of discrimination is this?

Obviously I have not reached the end of my considerations and must ponder hence. Twood be swell if other thoughts might contribute substantively to the proposition before us. I got hopes. No, really.
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
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https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
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_lulu
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _lulu »

Why don't we start with what's observable, reproducable, measurable and falsifiable.

xo
xx
xy
xy female
xyy
xxy
xxx
xxxy
congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency
congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to17α-hydroxylase deficiency
Progestin-induced virilisation
Androgen insensitivity syndrome
5-alpha-reductase deficiency
Persistent Müllerian duct syndrome
de la Chapelle syndrome
Mosaicism xx & xy
chimerism xx & xy

Who should be eligable for ordination?
Why or why not?
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_zeezrom
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _zeezrom »

I need to interrupt. I apologize in advance, SP.

I'm so very happy to see that Lulu has joined the board. Lulu has been on my mind for some very happy few weeks.

xoxoxo
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_lulu
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _lulu »

zeezrom wrote:I need to interrupt. I apologize in advance, SP.

I'm so very happy to see that Lulu has joined the board. Lulu has been on my mind for some very happy few weeks.

xoxoxo


That's very kind of you.

xyxyxy
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Morley
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _Morley »

lululu
_lulu
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _lulu »

Morley wrote:lululu



Now you understand my screen name.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_MCB
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _MCB »

Very acute observation, LULU. :smile:
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_just me
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Re: Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

Post by _just me »

Sock puppet, very wonderful and thoughtful post. Thank you for sharing it.

lulu wrote:Why don't we start with what's observable, reproducable, measurable and falsifiable.

xo
xx
xy
xy female
xyy
xxy
xxx
xxxy
congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency
congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to17α-hydroxylase deficiency
Progestin-induced virilisation
Androgen insensitivity syndrome
5-alpha-reductase deficiency
Persistent Müllerian duct syndrome
de la Chapelle syndrome
Mosaicism xx & xy
chimerism xx & xy

Who should be eligable for ordination?
Why or why not?


Great post.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
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