Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

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_Droopy
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Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _Droopy »

Just one example of "believing" Mormon Joanna Brooks hostility to core Church doctrine and standards:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... e%E2%80%9D

A few comments are in order:

A new poll released today by the Salt Lake Tribune shows that among Utah Mormons surveyed, 55% believe it is possible for people who are attracted to members of the same sex to change their sexual orientation. Twenty-five percent of Utah Mormons reported being “unsure,” and 15% believed gay people could not voluntarily “change” their own sexual orientation.

Among non-Mormon Utahns surveyed, 66% believed it was not possible for gay people to “change” their sexual orientation, while 20% thought it possible, and 14% were unsure.

Which confirms what those of us who live within the culture know: many, many LDS people live in a parallel universe when it comes to the reality of LGBT experience.


Brooks does not seem to be aware that successful change from homosexual to heterosexual orientation through reparative therapy for those uncomfortable with their homosexuality and who desire and are motivated to change is now undeniable and well established, and that even the American Psychological Association has long ago modified its original blanket denial of such a possibility.

Brooks apparently holds to a biological essentialist, reductionist view of homosexual origins, and apparently gives no credence to a broader bio/psycho/social approach. Such a reductionist view of homosexuality appeals, clearly, to a certain type of person that is not comfortable taking an unpopular stand amongst secularist liberal colleagues and peers with whom she would be outnumbered and perhaps persecuted for her views, were she to defend the Church's teachings here, and for whom the fashionable orthodoxies of the day provide both the popularity and psychological gratification of taking the "socially conscious" position, as determined within the highly ideologically conformist atmosphere of modern academe.

Better to take the easy and broad path.

Just a few weeks ago, I was visiting with a friend who has a gay adult child. We discussed the nuances of the recent events surrounding Elder Boyd K. Packer’s abrasive and controversial October conference talk which asserted that God would never have people be born with “tendencies” to same-sex attraction, and which drew hurtful, crude comparisons between the electoral battle to establish civil equality for LGBT people and a classroom of children “voting” on the gender of a cat.


Yes, this is typical emotion based leftist victimology mongering (in which she takes homosexuals as her mascots under her protective embrace against the "abrasive," "hurtful" words of the ogre, Boyd K. Packer) but its quite standard in the intellectually and morally vitiated world of the modern politically correct academy as it is in the mainstream media and arts community.

Brooks startling misrepresentation of Packer's actual words here is of note. Packer did not claim that there was no such thing as inborn "tendencies" toward homosexual attraction, or anything else. Here's what Packer actually said:

Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn temptations toward the impure and unnatural. Not so! Remember, God is our Heavenly Father.


Packer nowhere here denies inborn tendencies, bias, or predisposition. Neither has Dallin Oaks. What he does deny is the claim (essentially, the "born that way" argument of the cultural Left) that human beings come into the world "pre-set" regarding sexual orientation, or any other sexual fetish or preoccupation outside gospel boundaries. He denies that homosexuality qua homosexuality comes with us into the world as an essential element of our spirits and psychological structure. He denies no "tendencies" but does deny that human beings are "born gay," or, in other words, born not with some inherent predispositions, but with homosexual orientation already completely hard wired in an innate sense into the psych.

Happily for Elder Packer, no social science or brain science evidence exists in contradiction of that position, and the claims of the social Left and homosexual rights movement are ideological in nature, not rational or scientific.

Brooks needn't have misrepresented Packer in such a manner, and could have dealt with his words with at least a degree of critical rigor (and benefit of the doubt and good faith, given his position in the church of which she claims to have a testimony and in which she claims to "believe") and needn't have filled her criticisms of him with so much emotive baggage, but she chose to do so nonetheless.

Packer's fundamental teaching went to the very heart of the Church's understanding of sexual morality and its overall place within the plan of salvation:

We teach a standard of moral conduct that will protect us from Satan’s many substitutes or counterfeits for marriage. We must understand that any persuasion to enter into any relationship that is not in harmony with the principles of the gospel must be wrong. From the Book of Mormon we learn that “wickedness never was happiness.”


Marriage between a man and a woman is the only boundary of human sexuality within which actual sexual expression is legitimate. Satan's counterfeits for marriage would include premarital cohabitation without marriage, homosexuality, adulterous relationships, various sexual fetishes, group sexual activity etc.

The gate is straight, the way is narrow. A thief cannot break into the Kingdom of God by coming over the wall or sneaking in the back way. It cannot be. Perpetua had to climb up the latter into Heaven while avoiding sharp knives and other frightening weapons hanging from the ladder, and was forced (taking a great deal of courage) to step on the Dragon's head (as he was interwoven around the ladder) and use his head as a rung, to propel herself further upwards.

It isn't easy. Crosses must be born. Sometimes seemingly terrible sacrifices of the self must be undertaken. After we put all these enemies "under our feet," we become like God is, and live the life he lives, of which marriage and "eternal lives" is a central part.

There is sometimes no way around or over a mountain, only through it.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_RayAgostini

Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _RayAgostini »

My experience with gay people is summed up (only one example) Here. This was illustrative, and not uncommon.

I think you simplify the issue more than is necessary, or realistic.

Letter to Elder Boyd K. Packer.

I don't know how well you've "absorbed" Joanna Brooks' entry/testimony on Mormon Scholars Testify, but I think some of her points are noteworthy:

When I was seven years old and preparing for baptism, my father and I read the Book of Mormon together every night until we finished the book. Through these experiences, I learned to value reflection and discerning interpretation. I learned to place great faith in the revelatory power of words—both the words of scripture and words carefully rendered from human experience...

I am not afraid to say that I believe in a merciful, powerful, compassionate God who is available to all who search. I believe as is taught in 2 Nephi 26: 33: God “denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female . . . all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.” As a Mormon born before the 1978 lifting of the ban on priesthood for males of African descent, it has been my privilege to witness how Mormonism has opened itself to inspired changes that have led us closer to realizing the dream of Zion as a gathering of the “pure in heart” (Doctrine and Covenants 97:21). I believe this gathering process is still unfolding. I am grateful to belong to a community that has always emphasized hard work and service to others. Struggles for justice and dignity have always spoken powerfully to me as a Mormon and a person of faith. I believe in prayer, and Mormonism is the language I pray in. Through many life phases and challenges, I have always found comfort—sometimes astonishingly immediate comfort—from prayer. I have never been too proud to kneel and ask for help. Through the practice of prayer I have learned how to listen, how to wait for words, and how to discipline my needs, wants, and words into a shape harmonious with powers that are greater than I. Prayer as a spiritual discipline has harmonized in many ways with the forms of discipline I’ve learned as a writer, teacher, and scholar.


I don't see an "apostate" there at all. I see an honest woman trying to come to terms with her religion and her Mormon faith. Her enormous public appeal comes, if you like, from this paradox. People are genuinely intrigued why she continues to believe, and that draws them to take a second look at Mormonism.

It doesn't do you, or the Church, any service to paint Brooks as some kind of "wolf in sheep's clothing". Instead, you should look at her, and others like her, as genuinely grappling with the "big questions", regarding both her faith and life in general, sometimes with no easy answers in sight. As you judge, so shall you be judged. A little charity will never go astray, because "charity covereth a multitude of sins". However, if you feel like casting stones and questioning the faith of others, I hope your own "slate" is mostly unblemished. Playing the role of being a final arbiter and judge of others, is, as far as I can recall, something even Jesus never did in his mortal sojourn.
_Droopy
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Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _Droopy »

Typical tasteless intellectual gruel.

When I was seven years old and preparing for baptism, my father and I read the Book of Mormon together every night until we finished the book. Through these experiences, I learned to value reflection and discerning interpretation. I learned to place great faith in the revelatory power of words—both the words of scripture and words carefully rendered from human experience...


But she never received a testimony that the Book of Mormon was true, did she, Ray? No, because if she had, her "testimony" would have made such unambiguously clear, just as so many LDS do every fast and testimony meeting. This is why her testimony, as seems typical of other of her writings, is a long, dense, rambling, vague, impressionistic interpretation of what are clearly complex, internal psychological states and perceptions, but which make it very difficult to grasp exactly what she is trying to say about the gospel, the church, or her perceptions of them.

The rest of her testimony I've already been through. It does not read or like or convey the ideas found in the vast majority of LDS I have known and interacted with throughout my life.

Something is missing, and missing at a very deep, deep level here, and whatever this is, its manifestation can be detected clearly in her specific political and social preoccupations and issue concentrations, as well as in her radical feminism.

And please, your own self righteous moral pomposity adds nothing to the discourse. I have nowhere set myself up as her final judge or anything of the kind. She has set herself up as "a national voice on Mormon life and politics" and claims, irrespective of her religious and political beliefs, to be a "believing" Latter day Saint. If she can't now stand the heat her views, claims, and arguments generate, then perhaps she - and her hypersensitive defenders - should exit the proverbial kitchen.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_zeezrom
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Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _zeezrom »

Why is politics such a big deal in within the Mormon religion?
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Droopy
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Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _Droopy »

zeezrom wrote:Why is politics such a big deal in within the Mormon religion?



Why do you like movies about gladiators?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Blixa
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Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _Blixa »

zeezrom wrote:Why is politics such a big deal in within the Mormon religion?


It only is in certain extraordinarily warped and sectarian minds. Please do not confuse this salad of copy pasta with Mormonism in all its rich, problematic, beautiful, disturbing, inspiring and confounding history. Such stunted sputtering neither respects nor loves Mormonism. Or anything else about humanity for that matter.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_RayAgostini

Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _RayAgostini »

Droopy wrote:And please, your own self righteous moral pomposity adds nothing to the discourse. I have nowhere set myself up as her final judge or anything of the kind. She has set herself up as "a national voice on Mormon life and politics" and claims, irrespective of her religious and political beliefs, to be a "believing" Latter day Saint. If she can't now stand the heat her views, claims, and arguments generate, then perhaps she - and her hypersensitive defenders - should exit the proverbial kitchen.


So you think you have the right to define who should, or should not be a Mormon?
_Droopy
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Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _Droopy »

RayAgostini wrote:
Droopy wrote:And please, your own self righteous moral pomposity adds nothing to the discourse. I have nowhere set myself up as her final judge or anything of the kind. She has set herself up as "a national voice on Mormon life and politics" and claims, irrespective of her religious and political beliefs, to be a "believing" Latter day Saint. If she can't now stand the heat her views, claims, and arguments generate, then perhaps she - and her hypersensitive defenders - should exit the proverbial kitchen.


So you think you have the right to define who should, or should not be a Mormon?


Where have I done this? Brooks can be a "Mormon" all she likes. All I've said is that she is clearly not a "believing" or "faithful" Mormon as she wants others to believe, as she clearly:

1. Does not accept significant aspects of the Church's fundamental truth claims

2. Is openly in rebellion against the Church and the Lord's anointed servants on key issues of social/spiritual concern.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _Droopy »

It only is in certain extraordinarily warped and sectarian minds. Please do not confuse this salad of copy pasta with Mormonism in all its rich, problematic, beautiful, disturbing, inspiring and confounding history. Such stunted sputtering neither respects nor loves Mormonism. Or anything else about humanity for that matter.


The one nice thing about obfuscatory drivel is that there is no real motivation or need to respond to it.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_RayAgostini

Re: Joanna Brooks Swims Deep in Politically Correct Waters

Post by _RayAgostini »

Droopy wrote:
Where have I done this? Brooks can be a "Mormon" all she likes. All I've said is that she is clearly not a "believing" or "faithful" Mormon as she wants others to believe, as she clearly:


I take it then that one can validly be a "cultural Mormon"? Not a "TBM"? In your view, is there any "room" in your Church for people like Joanna Brooks? Or would you prefer that she just resign and completely give up on Mormonism? Maybe even have a "therapeutic stint" on RFM?
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