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Can anyone point me to the best arguments/evidence that suggest that Joseph Smith never committed adultery and never had sexual relationships with any of his plural or polyandrous wives.

Thanks.

Um, why are you asking the forum about this? Joseph Smith was a polygamist and had relations with his polygamist wives. Maybe you want to talk to the RLDS about this instead since I think they are in denial about it.

Tobin wrote:Um, why are you asking the forum about this? Joseph Smith was a polygamist and had relations with his polygamist wives. Maybe you want to talk to the RLDS about this instead since I think they are in denial about it.

Yeah, maybe it isn't such a good idea, but it came up on another site from an active LDS member not RLDS, who quoted the Price book on 'Joseph Smith fought polygamy' and was arguing that they had actually made quite a strong case.

I hasten to say that I have never read the Price book.

Tobin, I don't have any argument that Joseph was a polygamist, but since there appears to be no children from any of his polygamous or polyandrous relationships, or even from the supposed affairs with Fanny Alger and others (see the latest Grant Palmer podcast with John Dehlin on this), I'm wondering what the best evidence is that the marriages were purely dynastic.

I'm well aware of the 'horny old Joe' argument and the evidence for it. What's the evidence against it.

Perhaps I didn't frame my question well enough.

Apologies.

Mary,

If Joseph practiced polygamy without having sex he was in breach of what God wanted him to do. Polygamy was instituted by God for the specific purpose of 'raising seed'. In other words, having children.
To be compliant with Gods will Joseph would have at least attempted to sire offspring with his polygamous wives, even those who already had living husbands.

The apologists can't win this.

If Joseph didn't have sex he wasn't horny but disobeyed a direct commandment from God.

If Joseph did have sex then he didn't father any children. Why would God command Joseph to raise seed and then bless him only with 'blank' ammunition?

Mary wrote:Yeah, maybe it isn't such a good idea, but it came up on another site from an active LDS member not RLDS, who quoted the Price book on 'Joseph Smith fought polygamy' and was arguing that they had actually made quite a strong case.

There are LDS members that don't know very much about the history of the Church.

Mary wrote:Tobin, I don't have any argument that Joseph was a polygamist, but since there appears to be no children from any of his polygamous or polyandrous relationships, or even from the supposed affairs with Fanny Alger and others (see the latest Grant Palmer podcast with John Dehlin on this), I'm wondering what the best evidence is that the marriages were purely dynastic.
I'm well aware of the 'horny old Joe' argument and the evidence for it. What's the evidence against it.
Perhaps I didn't frame my question well enough.
Apologies.

Joseph had polygamous relations. I really don't know anyone that has studied the issue can deny that (well, other than RLDS). I don't think any off-spring from these relations survived. Unfortunately, it was a difficult time to live and many babies and young children did not survive.

The polyandrous charge is just garbage however. Mormons believe they need to be sealed (married by God for eternity, typically in the temple) to go to heaven. A number of women, who happened to be married to other men, were sealed/married to the prophet during his lifetime. They never had relations with him and remained with their husbands while Joseph Smith was alive. I am not aware of any credible evidence otherwise, so like I said - the charge is garbage. Anyway, there was a belief at the time that if you got sealed to the prophet, you were assured to go to heaven. In fact, a large number of women were sealed to Joseph Smith after he died too because of this belief.

I active LDS members could change one historical fact, it would be Joseph's sexual relationships.

by the way Mary, you asked about the portrayal of Joseph Smith.

Which one are you referring to?

Have you read "Joseph Fought Polygamy?"

That is the best one you'll find, I think. It is available online through The Red Brick Store website.

Link: http://restorationbookstore.org/jsfp-index.htm

Mary,

You can't really prove that something didn't happen. The most you can do is raise doubt that it took place. From an outsider's position, I think the strongest case against Joseph Smith engaging in sexual relations with his wives is the lack of offspring from those unions.

Do I believe it proves that Joseph didn't have sex with his wives?

Oh, heck no.

I'm just saying it's the strongest piece of the defense that apologists have going for them at this time.

Tobin wrote: A number of women, who happened to be married to other men, were sealed/married to the prophet during his lifetime. They never had relations with him and remained with their husbands while Joseph Smith was alive.

Heaven forbid we should believe the women.