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When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:15 am
by _DarkHelmet
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/15/when_mo ... singleton/

For a short time in the Book of Mormon, the Nephites abandoned their love of riches and established “Zion” — a classless utopia that “had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, but they were all made free.”

The Nephite story provided the template for Smith and Young’s social experiments with communalism. They would both try repeatedly to replicate the mythic Zion. Smith repeatedly told his followers, “if you are not equal in earthly things you cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things.” Young also championed wealth redistribution, “We have plenty here. No person is going to starve, or suffer, if there is an equal distribution of the necessaries of life.”


And as much as the current church embraces Democratic Capitalism for secular government, it is still a centralized theocracy as an organization. Money is collected and redistributed. Members aren't even allowed to pursue jobs within the church that interest them. Instead, jobs are assigned to members by the leadership.

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:46 pm
by _lulu
What did the Law of Consecration and the United Order mean for Mormon women's lives?

How about a Mormon Women's Papers Project?

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:45 pm
by _bcspace
Mormons were never socialists in doctrine. In fact, the LoC encourages capitalism and can only exist in a free market society.

http://institute.LDS.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-200-j-l-l.asp

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:55 pm
by _Buffalo
bcspace wrote:Mormons were never socialists in doctrine. In fact, the LoC encourages capitalism and can only exist in a free market society.

http://institute.LDS.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-200-j-l-l.asp


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Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:36 pm
by _bcspace
Yes, the official doctrine on the LoC includes a denial of socialism as well as a treatise on how private property and the free use of it is a fundamental principle. Also missing from the LoC are controls on price, production, and commerce and any sort of injunction against investment, growth, savings, and carrying over a profit.

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:47 pm
by _Buffalo
bcspace wrote:Yes, the official doctrine on the LoC includes a denial of socialism as well as a treatise on how private property and the free use of it is a fundamental principle. Also missing from the LoC are controls on price, production, and commerce and any sort of injunction against investment, growth, savings, and carrying over a profit.


Scripture Trump's manuals and talks, which can always be invalidated by a claim that they aren't ratified by the spirit.

The scriptures plainly teach a kind of theocratic socialism.

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:10 pm
by _DarkHelmet
Buffalo wrote:
bcspace wrote:Yes, the official doctrine on the LoC includes a denial of socialism as well as a treatise on how private property and the free use of it is a fundamental principle. Also missing from the LoC are controls on price, production, and commerce and any sort of injunction against investment, growth, savings, and carrying over a profit.


Scripture Trump's manuals and talks, which can always be invalidated by a claim that they aren't ratified by the spirit.

The scriptures plainly teach a kind of theocratic socialism.


Exactly. The scriptures teach these plain and precious truths. It is the vain professors who try to corrupt these plain teachings in order to justify having exceeding riches and wearing costly apparel.

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:17 pm
by _Buffalo
DarkHelmet wrote:
Exactly. The scriptures teach these plain and precious truths. It is the vain professors who try to corrupt these plain teachings in order to justify having exceeding riches and wearing costly apparel.


Indeed. Mormon foresaw this day of apostasy within the church:

Mormon 8

37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:26 pm
by _lulu
bcspace, has D&C section 42 be repealed by an Official Church Publication, that being the Official Standard?

Not seeing anything in your link about "captialism" or "free market society."

Re: When Mormons were socialists

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:14 am
by _bcspace
Scripture Trump's manuals and talks, which can always be invalidated by a claim that they aren't ratified by the spirit.


No scripture is of private interpretation, hence published doctrine Trump's.

Not seeing anything in your link about "captialism" or "free market society."


You see price or wage controls anywhere? I guarantee you haven't read anything on the page I link to, until now:

“They had all things common.” The phrase “they had all things common” ( Acts 4:32 ; see also Acts 2:44 ; 3 Nephi 26:19 ; 4 Nephi 1:3 ) is used to characterize those who lived the law of consecration in ancient times. Some have speculated that the term common suggests a type of communalism or “Christian Communism.” This interpretation is in error. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught the true nature of having all things common: “I preached on the stand about one hour on the 2nd chapter of Acts , designing to show the folly of common stock [holding property in common]. In Nauvoo every one is steward over his own [property].” ( History of the Church, 6:37–38.)

Each stewardship is considered private property (see Reading L-4 ), and the residues and surpluses consecrated for the storehouse became the “common property of the whole church” ( D&C 82:18 ). It is referred to as the “common property” because the covenant members of the order had access to it, according to their just “wants” and “needs,” including the need to improve their stewardship (see D&C 82:17–18 ).

The word equal is frequently used in the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants: “In . . . temporal things you shall be equal” ( D&C 70:14 ); “for if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things” ( D&C 78:6 ); “appoint unto this people their portions, every man equal according to his family, according to his circumstances and his wants and needs” ( D&C 51:3 ). The Lord gave His definition of the term equal: “And you are to be equal, or in other words, you are to have equal claims on the properties, for the benefit of managing the concerns of your stewardships, every man according to his wants and his needs, inasmuch as his wants are just” ( D&C 82:17 ).

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“This procedure [of providing deeds] preserved in every man the right of private ownership and management of his property. Indeed, the fundamental principle of the system was the private ownership of property. Each man owned his portion, or inheritance, or stewardship, with an absolute title, which, at his option, he could alienate [transfer], keep and operate, or otherwise treat as his own. The Church did not own all of the property, and life under the united order was not, and never will be, a communal life, as the Prophet Joseph himself said.