DiscussMormonism.com

Let's discuss. Here is a link to what Mormon.org has to say about the commandments and how keeping them brings us *more* freedom and happiness.

Is it true? What exactly do they mean by freedom and happiness, anyway?

http://Mormon.org/commandments/

Like our parents growing up, God gives us commandments to help keep us focused on what is most important and how to stay safe. All of His guidance is meant to keep us safe, help us stay close to Him and, in the end, to give us more freedom and happiness.

God does not want us to follow His divine guidance blindly or out of fear of punishment. He wants us to exercise intelligent obedience of our own free will. We need to gain our own witness, or belief, that the commandments really come from Him and help us live happier lives. To obtain this witness, we have to use faith. We have to have a real desire, and we have to be willing to do the work necessary to know these things.

What do you think? Does living the way outlined in this article make people happier and more free than people who do not?

just me wrote:

God does not want us to follow His divine guidance blindly or out of fear of punishment. He wants us to exercise intelligent obedience of our own free will.

Hmm...I question how accurate this is.

Once, when I had been a bad boy I went to see my Bishop.
We had a long chat about what I had done and how that made me feel.
My Bishop told me that I was to free myself from guilt because God had forgiven me unless it was the guilt and fear of eternal punishment that was keeping me active in the Church.

He went on to add that God doesn't want blind obedience but that is preferable to people questioning to the point of unbelief.

just me wrote:Is it true? What exactly do they mean by freedom and happiness, anyway?

I think most people believe the meta-principle. Most parents teach their children things they believe will help their children be happy: get an education, take care of you home and your health, be nice to others, avoid dangerous things like crack cocaine or unprotected sex. Since parents want their children to be ready for adulthood, most want their children to understand the larger principles about why these things will tend to keep them happy so they will choose it themselves. The overriding lesson isn't which particular rules one must follow but to understand the consequences of actions before making a decision.

Where people tend to disagree with the church is in the particular rules: no pre-marital sex, no homosexual relations, no alcohol, pay tithing, etc. and what consequences these particular things have.

I would say that those who follow certain rules: avoiding crack, getting a good education and job, etc. are more free than those who do not. Whether that is also the case for church-specific rules is more controversial.

What if you don't buy the paradigm? What is sin? Why is obedience freedom?

Work is freedom.

One of the problems with the way the church teaches to keep God's commandments is that they use external reasons to do so. Either fear of punishment/rejection or hope of acceptance/blessings/eternal reward. Neither of those methods are good long-term. They also cause major issues with how people feel about themselves. The feel like crap every time the don't live up to the expectations...and let's face it, LDS expectations are some of the highest out there.

So, often times, people end up feeling unhappy and dissatisfied rather than "more free and happy." It's a vicious cycle that is hard to get out of.

I think there is also a huge problem with teaching people that they can control their thoughts and then saying over and over "don't think about a white bear." What a destructive thing to do to people!

Actually, teaching people that they can have complete control over their thoughts and actions (and reactions) just seems to harmful to me. We are such complicated animals. We are going to react I negative ways or do stupid stuff sometimes. If we could control ourselves we wouldn't do embarrassing, stupid stuff ever.

Teaching that God or the Spirit leaves you for not being perfect-FOR BEING HUMAN-is so tragic. What good is the Comforter if it leaves you when you feel horrible about yourself and the stupid things you do? No good at all!

Neither of those methods are good long-term.

Yet they are the best possible reasons for people who haven't yet developed a love of God and man.

bcspace wrote:

Neither of those methods are good long-term.

Yet they are the best possible reasons for people who haven't yet developed a love of God and man.

Not really. People who love their God and their fellow man still are human. This is still an external reason to do something.

People do best and are most successful when they do things because they enjoy it, because it brings them joy, etc. For the sheer fun of it.

For example, people tend to stick with exercise when they choose an activity they enjoy participating in. People who just exercise because they feel guilty if they don't tend to not stick with it.

just me wrote:It would be rather easy to teach people to treat themselves with love and compassion, but the Lord has not seen fit to reveal that to the CEO's of the Corporation.

Who knows? Maybe President Uchtdorf will give an encore to his "Stop it" talk.

May I add a footnote here? When the Lord requires that we forgive all men, that includes forgiving ourselves. Sometimes, of all the people in the world, the one who is the hardest to forgive—as well as perhaps the one who is most in need of our forgiveness—is the person looking back at us in the mirror.

. . .

Forgiving ourselves and others is not easy. In fact, for most of us it requires a major change in our attitude and way of thinking—even a change of heart. -- Dieter F. Uchtdorf, "The Merciful Obtain Mercy" April 2012 Sunday Morning session.

asbestosman wrote:

just me wrote:It would be rather easy to teach people to treat themselves with love and compassion, but the Lord has not seen fit to reveal that to the CEO's of the Corporation.

Who knows? Maybe President Uchtdorf will give an encore to his "Stop it" talk.

May I add a footnote here? When the Lord requires that we forgive all men, that includes forgiving ourselves. Sometimes, of all the people in the world, the one who is the hardest to forgive—as well as perhaps the one who is most in need of our forgiveness—is the person looking back at us in the mirror.

. . .

Forgiving ourselves and others is not easy. In fact, for most of us it requires a major change in our attitude and way of thinking—even a change of heart. -- Dieter F. Uchtdorf, "The Merciful Obtain Mercy" April 2012 Sunday Morning session.

It is unfortunate that even the title of his talk teaches people that they are not worthy of mercy unless they earn it. *sigh*