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Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:50 pm
by _Runtu
I was just perusing "And I Saw the Stars -- The Book of Abraham and Ancient Geocentric Astronomy" by Daniel C. Peterson, John Gee, and William J. Hamblin, wherein they argue that the Book of Abraham demonstrates a "geocentric" view of the universe, meaning a universe that revolves around the earth rather than one that revolves around the sun. Their reasoning is as follows:

A careful reading of the Book of Abraham, however, shows that the text is describing a geocentric system. The clearest indication of this geocentricity is found in the frequent references to a hierarchy of celestial bodies, each one higher than the preceding and all above the earth. The most explicit statement of this comes from Abraham 3:17: "Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it." Likewise, the moon is elsewhere stated to be above the earth: "[The moon] is above or greater than that [the earth] upon which thou standest" (Abraham 3:5). Furthermore, we find that "one planet [is] above another" (Abraham 3:9). The text does not describe any object as being below "the earth upon which thou standest" (Abraham 3:5, 7). To us it seems very difficult to interpret this language as anything other than geocentric, and this alone should suffice to prove the geocentric perspective of the text. However, there is a great deal of additional evidence pointing to the geocentric perspective.

The higher position of the various planets or stars correlates to a longer time span. Thus, we find that "the set time of the lesser light [the moon] is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest" (Abraham 3:7). The higher the planet or star, the greater the length of its reckoning. Thus, "there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still; And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob" (Abraham 3:8—9). The basis of the reckoning of time is given with the example of Kolob "according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof" (Abraham 3:4). Thus, the length of the reckoning of a planet is based on its revolution (and not rotation). Those planets or stars that are higher have a greater "point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow" (Abraham 3:5). It therefore moves in revolution above the earth. This is a geocentric description.

God is consistently said to "go down" to the earth or is described as being "above" the earth (Abraham 2:7; 3:21). "I [God] now, therefore, have come down unto thee [Abraham]" (Abraham 3:21). God likewise descends to create the earth and mankind (see Abraham 3:24; 4:26—27; 5:4); "The Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down . . . and organized and formed the heavens and the earth" (Abraham 4:1; see 5:4). God's revelations likewise must descend through the various heavens: the explanation for figure 7 of Facsimile 2 has "God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood." (Facsimile 2, explanation to fig. 7, cf. 3:21).28 From the perspective of ancient geocentric cosmology, all of this was conceived literally; God is indeed above the earth in or above the highest heaven and needs to physically descend, or send messages, down through the heavens to arrive at the earth.


It seems like a reasonably solid case; however, there is a serious problem in their argument. The Book of Abraham refers to "orders" of planets, and planets of the same order have the same "reckoning" of time. Those of a higher order move "more slow" until you reach Kolob, which has the longest reckoning of time. On first glance, this does support a geocentric model, as the authors assert.

But the text twice refers to "all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest" (Abr. 3:5, 9). If the earth is at the center of the universe, it is unique, and there can be no other planets occupying that central place in the universe. There cannot be any planets of the same order, unless our earth is not the center that the rest revolves around. Of course, someone who understood that our solar system is not unique would have no problem suggesting that there are other planets in the same order as the earth.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:54 pm
by _CaliforniaKid
Runtu wrote:But the text twice refers to "all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest" (Abr. 3:5, 9). If the earth is at the center of the universe, it is unique, and there can be no other planets occupying that central place in the universe. There cannot be any planets of the same order, unless our earth is not the center that the rest revolves around.

Good point. Furthermore, the explanation for figure 5 in Facsimile 2 refers to the "annual revolutions" of the earth. What is the earth supposed to be revolving around if it's at the center of the system?

The Abrahamic astronomy is celestial kingdom-centric, not geocentric.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:56 pm
by _Runtu
CaliforniaKid wrote:
Runtu wrote:But the text twice refers to "all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest" (Abr. 3:5, 9). If the earth is at the center of the universe, it is unique, and there can be no other planets occupying that central place in the universe. There cannot be any planets of the same order, unless our earth is not the center that the rest revolves around.

Good point. Furthermore, the explanation for figure 5 in Facsimile 2 refers to the "annual revolutions" of the earth. What is the earth supposed to be revolving around if it's at the center of the system?

The Abrahamic astronomy is celestial-centric, not geocentric.


That's how I read it. I was just reading the section of Thomas Dick's book that discusses the hierarchy of planets and the throne of God. If one doesn't prefer a supernatural explanation, that book is clearly a source of the ideas in Abraham 3.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:56 pm
by _Juggler Vain
Runtu wrote:I was just perusing "And I Saw the Stars -- The Book of Abraham and Ancient Geocentric Astronomy" by Daniel C. Peterson, John Gee, and William J. Hamblin, wherein they argue that the Book of Abraham demonstrates a "geocentric" view of the universe, meaning a universe that revolves around the earth rather than one that revolves around the sun.

I'm not sure why they would find it strategically useful to defend a geocentric interpretation. Sure, that interpretation would support the idea of the Book of Abraham as an ancient document, rather than, as their opening paragraph states, a "purely a nineteenth-century document" reflecting "early nineteenth-century astronomical speculations," which is obviously the conclusion they would try hardest to avoid, to refute Joseph Smith's reputation as a charlatan. But by tagging it as a geocentric text, they essentially negate its revelatory value, because now it only reflects what everybody else thought about the universe in those ancient times. If God sat down with Abraham to teach him about the universe, why would he feed Abraham cutting-edge bronze-age human observations? Abraham was supposed to have received the "Truth" about the universe, or God's involvement in the story seems unnecessary.

This analysis, by shifting the Book of Abraham's model for the universe back from the 19th century to the Bronze Age, still doesn't address the underlying problem -- the text reflects only limited (and falsified) human ideas, and therefore provides no evidence that God or "Truth" has anything to do with the information it contains. I guess their idea is to say that Joseph Smith translated, by the power of God, an ancient charlatan's writings.

Runtu wrote:But the text twice refers to "all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest" (Abr. 3:5, 9). If the earth is at the center of the universe, it is unique, and there can be no other planets occupying that central place in the universe. There cannot be any planets of the same order, unless our earth is not the center that the rest revolves around. Of course, someone who understood that our solar system is not unique would have no problem suggesting that there are other planets in the same order as the earth.

That's a good point. It seems like solid evidence for the "nineteenth century" interpretation.

-JV

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:57 pm
by _Kishkumen
CaliforniaKid wrote:Good point. Furthermore, the explanation for figure 5 in Facsimile 2 refers to the "annual revolutions" of the earth. What is the earth supposed to be revolving around if it's at the center of the system?

The Abrahamic astronomy is celestial-centric, not geocentric.


Excellent thoughts, both of you. I agree.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:01 pm
by _Kishkumen
Juggler Vain wrote:But by tagging it as a geocentric text, they essentially negate its revelatory value, because now it only reflects what everybody else thought about the universe in those ancient times. If God sat down with Abraham to teach him about the universe, why would he feed Abraham cutting-edge bronze-age human observations? Abraham was supposed to have received the "Truth" about the universe, or God's involvement in the story seems unnecessary.

This analysis, by shifting the Book of Abraham's model for the universe back from the 19th century to the Bronze Age, still doesn't address the underlying problem -- the text reflects only limited (and falsified) human ideas, and therefore provides no evidence that God or "Truth" has anything to do with the information it contains. I guess their idea is to say that Joseph Smith translated, by the power of God, an ancient charlatan's writings.


Very insightful, JV. It has been my view that a number of apologetic positions make similar implicit concessions to a non-revelatory view of Joseph Smith in their bid to protect the opposite position. It is very odd. Joseph Smith is a revelator because he was able to get divine access to ancient texts that were flawed human productions that reflected their times. And yet we have to make sure Joseph Smith does not reflect his time.

My head is spinning.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:10 pm
by _Runtu
Juggler Vain wrote:I'm not sure why they would find it strategically useful to defend a geocentric interpretation. Sure, that interpretation would support the idea of the Book of Abraham as an ancient document, rather than, as their opening paragraph states, a "purely a nineteenth-century document" reflecting "early nineteenth-century astronomical speculations," which is obviously the conclusion they would try hardest to avoid, to refute Joseph Smith's reputation as a charlatan. But by tagging it as a geocentric text, they essentially negate its revelatory value, because now it only reflects what everybody else thought about the universe in those ancient times. If God sat down with Abraham to teach him about the universe, why would he feed Abraham cutting-edge bronze-age human observations? Abraham was supposed to have received the "Truth" about the universe, or God's involvement in the story seems unnecessary.

This analysis, by shifting the Book of Abraham's model for the universe back from the 19th century to the Bronze Age, still doesn't address the underlying problem -- the text reflects only limited (and falsified) human ideas, and therefore provides no evidence that God or "Truth" has anything to do with the information it contains. I guess their idea is to say that Joseph Smith translated, by the power of God, an ancient charlatan's writings.


Even if the astronomy stuff isn't the work of an ancient charlatan, it still is presented as coming from a divine source, so either this is myth or just plain wrong. Either way, it makes one wonder why the church would have canonized ancient error or why Joseph would have translated and published it in the first place.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:22 pm
by _Spurven Ten Sing
When in doubt act like the other religions so you can go all tu quoque.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:34 pm
by _Buffalo
Juggler Vain wrote:This analysis, by shifting the Book of Abraham's model for the universe back from the 19th century to the Bronze Age, still doesn't address the underlying problem -- the text reflects only limited (and falsified) human ideas, and therefore provides no evidence that God or "Truth" has anything to do with the information it contains. I guess their idea is to say that Joseph Smith translated, by the power of God, an ancient charlatan's writings.


Excellent points.

Re: Geocentric Astronomy in the Book of Abraham?

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:36 pm
by _Juggler Vain
Kishkumen wrote:It has been my view that a number of apologetic positions make similar implicit concessions to a non-revelatory view of Joseph Smith in their bid to protect the opposite position. It is very odd. Joseph Smith is a revelator because he was able to get divine access to ancient texts that were flawed human productions that reflected their times. And yet we have to make sure Joseph Smith does not reflect his time.

This effort to make Joseph Smith into some kind of transparent relay mechanism for legitimately ancient (though still flawed) ideas is interesting. Mormonism purportedly began as a movement criticizing all established religions as objectively false, or at least lacking sufficient Truth. Now, apparently, Mormonism's Truth claims are in need of being rehabilitated to the same level of credibility as those established religions.

Spurven Ten Sing wrote:When in doubt act like the other religions so you can go all tu quoque.

Exactly.

-JV