City Creek Mall versus Urban Decay (with link)

[_KevinSim]

A lot has been said on this forum about City Creek Mall, and about how, instead of using tithing funds to build City Creek Mall, the LDS leaders could have used those funds to help the poor, even the poor in third world countries.

Take a look at this link: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_decay". Do people really think that God wants urban decay? Is it so unreasonable to conclude that God might actually want to work against urban blight by revitalizing downtown Salt Lake City?

If people really think that the LDS leaders should spend the tithing funds on helping the poor in third world countries, then I challenge those people to put their money where their mouth is; set up a faith group that does what the LDS Church does, except instead of revitalizing downtown Salt Lake City it helps the poor in developing nations. And once they've done that, it would be interesting to see if it's as successful in improving the lives of those poor as the LDS Church is in improving the lives of those poor with the Perpetual Education Fund.

[_Themis]

A lot has been said on this forum about City Creek Mall, and about how, instead of using tithing funds to build City Creek Mall, the LDS leaders could have used those funds to help the poor, even the poor in third world countries.

My understanding is that they hoped to make back the money they invested in it.

If people really think that the LDS leaders should spend the tithing funds on helping the poor in third world countries, then I challenge those people to put their money where their mouth is;

How would you know what they do or do not do for the needy?

set up a faith group that does what the LDS Church does, except instead of revitalizing downtown Salt Lake City it helps the poor in developing nations.

I think they are arguing that there are already a number of groups, although I am not sure why you put in faith group.

And once they've done that, it would be interesting to see if it's as successful in improving the lives of those poor as the LDS Church is in improving the lives of those poor with the Perpetual Education Fund.

I'm sure many do well, but even though I like the PEF, it would be hard to tell how it really is making a difference. It also does not come from tithing fund, and it is not a charity as it is a loan with an interest rate to not just make back the money lent but earn money as well. Now this does not mean it is not a positive thing for some who may not have any other way to get the money they need for some education.

[_Gadianton]

Kevin,

The Church wants to extend its power and by consequence fights "urban decay". If it works, it's the free market solution to the inner city, but "It's not by the benevolence of the baker..." People might worry that privatization doesn't solve all problems and that if cities go broke and corporations take take up the slack, the world his headed for a corporate dystopia. The corporate approach to saving urban decay could get interesting. I think you or Tobin noted correctly that one of the reasons Salt Lake gets so much less for its money than Dubai is due to labor restrictions. In Dubai, they can pay 2$ an hour to their workers. But, cheap labor is a problem because you build all these beautiful buildings and then have a bunch of poor people littering the streets. So over there, they quarantine the workers and deportation is a breeze. In a long, really long-anticipated novel I'm working on -- and I can mention this since it's just a backdrop issue and not central to the plot -- one of the ranking brethren of the Church implements a key solution to the problems of cost in the effort to bring the gospel to the world through real estate. US corporations can't get around problems like labor laws easily in order to realistically create their own private cities. But a humble servant of the lord figures out a way for his corporate religion to do it. He creates a new kind of service mission -- elderly retired folks with money to burn touring the world for the Church and returning to give talks about it doesn't really help anyone in the long run. So he calls young members in impoverished countries on service missions to church headquarters to "labor with their hands to the building up of the kingdom." Since they enter as volunteers, they are only paid small stipends to supplement the room and board in the missionary centers they volunteer to confine themselves to and after the service has finished, they go home. Well, I mention that as an example of creative ways a religion might be able solve expansion problems that typical businesses can't.

As far as the LDS Church not giving money to the poor, that's never been my complaint as it does little long-term good. Billion dollar corporations and start-up ventures alike donate to the poor because it's a way to advertise. Some start-ups will spend more on fundraisers for charities than they do their core product because marketing is everything. The Church doesn't spend one more dime than necessary for maintaining image and tax write-offs.

I believe the Church should instead, just tithe what they need to build church buildings and operate as a religion and give the money back to the members rather than transferring it to the upper class who live in the nice condos and scenery for the GAs.

I do respect the Church, however, for their cunning. Let's get a couple things straight:

there is no God.
every man prospers according to the management of the creature.

The church is doing a fantastic job expanding its power according to its own cunning management, and should be respected and feared for this.

[_Hades]

Fighting urban decay for Jesus. There's a faith promoting spin.

[_SteelHead]

So let me understand this....

Jesus has blown 5 billion combating urban decay in downtown SLC.
Jesus goes out of his way to save young Tommy's fiver from the washer woman.
Jesus can't be bothered to save thousands of starving children in Africa.

Quite capricious this Jesus of yours.

Why should I worship him again? Jesus loves the little children but they take a backseat to real estate speculation.

[Guest]

Hell on Earth is this:



Your children wasting away in front of your eyes, while capricious Jesus directs his mouthpiece to spend 5 billion on a mall.

[_Willy Law]

Do people really think that God wants urban decay?

Appears God is urban decay neutral.

[_Jonah]

And once they've done that, it would be interesting to see if it's as successful in improving the lives of those poor as the LDS Church is in improving the lives of those poor with the Perpetual Education Fund.

I would be more moved if the church turned the loans from the PEF into grants. Since the principle of the fund is never touched (the loans are issued through the interest made on the fund), why not just give away the annual interest earned? In the long run the church would still benefit from the increase in tithing paid by the newly educated and employed.

At the least, make the loans interest free. Earning interest on interest is not impressive. Unless the church is in it to make a buck.

[_Kevin Graham]

I drove by the mall about twenty minutes ago. It sure doesn't look like a mall that would cost that much.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Got any pictures of those $150,000,000 trout?

- VRDRC