FAIR distorting the facts in UVU presentation

[_LDS truthseeker]

On March 29 & 30 of 2012, there was a live presentation held at the Utah Valley University entitled 'Mormonism and the Internet'. Guest speakers included LDS true believers, FAIR apologist Scott Gordon as well as non-traditional believers like Joanna Brooks and John Dehlin.

http://mormonstories.org/uvu-mormonism- ... ry-avance/

In reviewing the presentation, we noticed a significant error in the presentation made by Scott Gordon (President of FAIR):

In Scott's presentation at the 41:07 mark he has a slide that says "Translation with a Hat". He then lists 5 LDS sources that he claims states that Joseph translated the Book of Mormon with a hat.

I looked them up and 3 of the references do not even say the word "hat". They talk about the translation but do not say he put his face in a hat, which is the issue:

He lists:

Ensign Jan 97, pg 36 (NO HAT MENTIONED)

Ensign, Jul 93, pg 61 (HAT IS MENTIONED)

Ensign, Jan 88, pg 6-13 (NO HAT MENTIONED)

Ensign, Sep 77. pg 79 (HAT MENTIONED)

Friend, Sep 1974, 7 (NO HAT MENTIONED)

If FAIR wants to claim that the critics are wrong, when they say that the church isn't forthcoming in much of its history like the actual Book of Mormon translation process, and attempt to prove this by showing 5 examples taken from the church, they should at least be truthful in the sources they use as examples. Only twice was the word "hat" mentioned. Take in mind that the title of FAIR's presentation is 'Translation with a Hat'. Hat is the keyword here.

Looking at the two times the word "hat" was actually used in the articles discussing the Book of Mormon translation, one was 19 years ago and the other was 35 years ago. The church has of course had many opportunities to mention the "stone in the hat" method in the many articles and images used in its publications over the last 35 years, but to only mention hat twice and to have ever single image showing Joseph actually using the plates while translating with no image of his face in the hat is very misleading.

Good thing someone is checking FAIR's facts!

[_Kevin Graham]

Yeah, FAIR is pretty sloppy when it comes to this stuff. They do not put a lot of effort into getting all their ducks in a row.

[_3sheets2thewind]

It should be obvious long ago that Scott Gordon is no different in tactics than the tactics he rails against.

[_Kishkumen]

Seems par for the course as far as I can tell. He's probably boasted to all of his friends how he "really showed those liar critics" all the while knowing somewhere deep down inside that he had overstated his case.

[_RockSlider]

very good listen

anti-mormon "I wonder if we might just call them hurt?"

[_RockSlider]

Also, John calls for a moratorium on the words cult/anti-Mormon suggesting they are the equivalent of the N-word in this context.
Scott wants to hold on to one of these n words and defines it as such:
Those who would accuse me of lying for the Lord.
Did he really say that???

[_Stormy Waters]

Here are links to the articles were the hat is mentioned.
http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng&query=hat
http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1977/09/by-the-gift-and-power-of-god?lang=eng&query=hat

Is there a way to figure out which page numbers go with which articles with the online version? I'd like to verify this for myself. Not that I don't believe you, but it seems bizarre to lie about something so openly when things like this can be easily verified.

[_3sheets2thewind]

Here are links to the articles were the hat is mentioned.
http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng&query=hat
http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1977/09/by-the-gift-and-power-of-god?lang=eng&query=hat

Is there a way to figure out which page numbers go with which articles with the online version? I'd like to verify this for myself. Not that I don't believe you, but it seems bizarre to lie about something so openly when things like this can be easily verified.

The jan 1997 article mentions divine interpreters and I believe urim and thummum(sp), it does not mention a hat, nor does it give any indication that Joseph Smith placed a stone in something then placed his head over the opening where the stone was placed. Gordon is lying to the willfully ignorant masses. Gordon can not be honest with his fellow man in his claims. I say someone should officially/publicly take him to task for his deliberate lies.

[_Kishkumen]

Those who would accuse me of lying for the Lord.
Did he really say that???

Those who take it upon themselves to rationalize lying for their holy cause are pious frauds at best and exploitative scoundrels at worst.

[_lostindc]

FAIR operates no different than Karl Rove. If you want understand how FAIR spins an argument then study presidential rhetoric focused on Karl Rove's communication(s).