Page 1 of 3

The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:18 pm
by _MomInColorado
Anyone who has grown up with a narcissistic parent (or two) knows what a destructive environment is created for young, developing minds. Well, the same thing goes for a God-the-Father figure central to a religion with narcissistic tendancies or whose persona has developed to be completely narcissistic.

In order to explain the root of my issues with the LDS church to my daughter, I had to set aside my issues with religion in general, with Joseph Smith, with Book of Mormon science, with prophets, with secrecy, with tithing settlements and temple recommends, etc, etc and simply compare a humanistic, protestant Christian god-figure with the LDS god-figure being described in her lessons, found in D&C's, and in church leader teachings.

The metaphor is obviously not perfected and is repetitive in places (so please don't pick at minor issues) but I think it definitely adds another layer to the "boogey-man" child abuse discussion ...

As an educated outside observer. my understanding of the Protestant (New Testament) God is of one who loves all his children and has sacrificed so they could have all possible opportunities available in this world. He knows they will make mistakes, and when they do, he still loves them equally. He doesn't compare them to one another setting them apart based on their level of goodness. He gives them guidance and hopes they will make the right choices. When they make bad choices, he is there to catch them and hold them close when they need him the most. He does not withhold his love to teach a lesson. He wants and expects his family to love and support one another but he doesn't demand it. He expects them to refrain from judging one another just as he does not judge their mistakes. In this world-view, life has obstacles but they are not of his making - he doesn't place tests and roadblocks in the way on purpose to see how his children react and to judge those reactions. He is there to love and support them over, around, and through those obstacles. In the end, they are all his children and they will all be together with him away from these worldly challenges and obstacles. He sacrificed so that his children would know they are loved but he doesn't expect more of them than they can possibly achieve as payback for that sacrifice. He wants them to live the best life they can and realizes that this is different for each individual. He treats his children as adults who will use his teachings to make the best decisions available to them. The God of the Old Testament tried establishing lots of rules and commandments and he decided that approach didn't work. So he decided to provide a living example of expectations in Jesus Christ. He expects his children to use his teachings and the stories of Christ's example as a guide for how to use their talents and abilities in a supportive, loving, and non-judgemental way that honors oneself and those around him. He loves each of his children equally no matter how well they succeed in following that example. He hopes that by providing unconditional love and this loving example that his children will love, honor, and respect him and his sacrifice, but he doesn't demand it. He hopes that they will share that love with others and set their own example of loving support and guidance without judgment or expecting anything in return and that these examples will attract those who don't yet know of or understand his promise of unconditional love. He wants each of his children to strive to be the best they can be so that they will be proud of themselves and what they accomplished in this life. In the end, all his children will be loved and cared for together in peace in the next life.

As an educated outside observer, my understanding of the Mormon God is of one who loves all his children and wants the best for them. So, he demands obedience and instructs them on how to be their best by providing Scriptures and on-going instruction and covenants. He provides rules to follow in the form of Commandments which can be found in the Old and New Testaments, the Book of Mormon, and the Doctrines and Covenants which are interpreted and updated by his designated special leaders, Prophets. If his children follow these Commandments, they are rewarded here on Earth and are allowed to be close to him and to know of additional sacred covenants shared only in the Temple. If they don't follow these Commandments satisfactorily, they may be cut off from his blessings (like sharing in the Sacrament and visiting him in the Temple) until they can again prove themselves worthy. Those most obedient are promised more blessings - without knowing what those will be or when they will come - as long as they continue to be worthy. He tells his children that their happiness depends on their ability to obey his rules. In the end, those who have most pleased him with their obedience will be given great wealth and power in the after-life and be allowed to be in his presence. Those children who are good and kind and try their best but still break the rules and those who never have the opportunity to fully understand his expectations, and therefore please him less, will be given a lesser place in the after-life, will serve those most worthy, and will not be allowed to be with him for the final judgment. Those who are judged to have not tried hard enough or who did not believe in his Commandments and Prophets, and were therefore not obedient, will be doomed to an even worse existence further from him with none of his rewards and won't even be allowed to serve those most worthy. He expects his children to study and understand all his complicated instruction on how to live an obedient life. He has provided Prophets as well as other designated intermediaries to provide on-going reminders about what it takes to please him and to help his children determine if they are being properly obedient. If his children make mistakes, they can go through these special intermediaries to find out what they must do to again gain his favor and be good enough in his eyes. His children are told that his perfect son, Jesus Christ, suffered and sacrificed for them and that they must respect and honor that sacrifice. They are told that they will never be as perfect as Christ but that they must try to be or rewards, including his closeness, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit will be withheld. He tells his children that in order to gain his considerable favor and live with him in the after-life, they must have families and give him lots of children (bodies for his spirit children). He says that obedience means not questioning his rules or the guidance and authority of his representatives - questioning the authority and actions of the church means disrespecting him and proving that the questioner's belief is not strong enough to be worthy of his blessings. He expects his children to set an example of obedience and to tell others how they too can gain his favor and blessings. He tells them to first tell others of his love, then of his sacrifice, and then of his Commandments. Once these others have pledged obedience to him, his prophets, and the church, they can learn more about the different levels of rewards available and what they must do to receive them. He wants his children to strive to be the best they can be in order to gain his approval and the ability to be like him in the Celestial Kingdom, have spirit children, and populate and rule over their own world forever, and to avoid the lesser levels of heavenly existence, including Spirit Prison.

If these were your choices, which family would you want to be a part of? She doesn't see it now, but she will ...

I have to question a god (just as I would a father) who has to command his children to love him, pray to him, and pay for the privilege of being near him (in temple). Shouldn't that love and prayer be given freely to be meaningful, and shouldn't he freely offer that closeness to all who desire it? If it is a positive, healthy relationship the children will gladly support the family without being commanded to do so.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:25 pm
by _bcspace
They are told that they will never be as perfect as Christ


Actually, we are told that we will sit down with Christ in his Father's throne. Not in the sense that this will be part of the tour but that we will live with God as Gods. We are taught that we are the offspring of Deity and have the same potential. Contrast that with those who actually have no idea what our origins are and one so taught realizes a great deal of joy and confidence and love of God.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:55 pm
by _ludwigm
MomInColorado wrote:.

American Heritage Dictionary: par·a·graph

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary păr'ə-grăf' - noun.
A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:05 pm
by _MomInColorado
The "will never be as perfect as Christ" line came straight from the missionaries' Atonement discussion ... of course they are told not to go into the "live with God as Gods" piece with an investigator. When I asked to discuss D&C 132, the leader actually said he couldn't do that because he had to stick to "milk before meat" - which was incredibly condescending and just served to piss me off. I was trying to ask intellegent questions and it freaked them out to the point that they all reverted back to repeating their testimonies (the 4 of them) and my daughter got very little of the actual Atonement lesson.

And, sorry about the lack of paragraphs ludwigm.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:17 pm
by _just me
Mormon god is a jackass. Amen.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:10 pm
by _harmony
MomInColorado wrote:The "will never be as perfect as Christ" line came straight from the missionaries' Atonement discussion ... of course they are told not to go into the "live with God as Gods" piece with an investigator. When I asked to discuss D&C 132, the leader actually said he couldn't do that because he had to stick to "milk before meat" - which was incredibly condescending and just served to piss me off. I was trying to ask intellegent questions and it freaked them out to the point that they all reverted back to repeating their testimonies (the 4 of them) and my daughter got very little of the actual Atonement lesson.

And, sorry about the lack of paragraphs ludwigm.


FOUR? Why 4?

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:23 pm
by _MomInColorado
There are apparently two pairs of missionaries assigned to the ward and they always seem to be together ... at least when they are with my daughter (18, in HS) - hanging out, playing volleyball in the church gym, at Red Robin spending hours with unlimited refills of rootbeer floats, a n d at her lessons. Oh, and they text with her all day long and late into the night - apparently their phone minutes are limited but they have unlimited texting.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:31 pm
by _Albion
I might add that the protestant God does not expect that his followers will become perfect. Christ is the believer's perfection and Christ's righteousness is imputed to those who believe based on faith and through God's grace...nothing else. Earned righteousness, worthiness, is not a Biblical concept.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:50 pm
by _Darth J
The Mormon God is Joseph Smith's Mary Sue.

Re: The Mormon god is a narcissistic god

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:21 pm
by _Tobin
Actually, both groups are right and wrong.

Protestants are right. We are saved only by the grace of God and there is NOTHING we can do to save ourselves and pay God back for saving us.

Mormons are wrong. The whole idea that one would get bogged down in rituals and ceremonies in the vain attempt to ensure one's savlation is ludicrous. None of it matters if one is not saved by the grace of God and the best way to show that is showing love and kindness to other people (not by dressing up in temple clothes and other things Mormons choose to do instead often).

Protestants are wrong. IF you are saved by God, you should do what God commands and follow him. After all, even the demons acknowledge the Jesus is the Christ and simply stating that is not going to save you alone. The reason they have no claim on the ransom of God is because they refuse to follow the Lord, acknowledge he speaks today, and do as he commands and so they have no right to claim they are saved.

Mormons are right. They are willing to do as the Lord commands today. Though many of them have replaced doing as the Lord commands with doing as Mormon preachers command, the concept is still alive in Mormonism though muted.