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Pearl of Great Price Joseph Smith Jr. History I

51 Convenient to the village of Manchester, Ontario county, New York, stands a hill of considerable size, and the most elevated of any in the neighborhood. On the west side of this hill, not far from the top, under a stone of considerable size, lay the plates, deposited in a stone box. This stone was thick and rounding in the middle on the upper side, and thinner towards the edges, so that the middle part of it was visible above the ground, but the edge all around was covered with earth.

52 Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate, as stated by the messenger. The box in which they lay was formed by laying stones together in some kind of cement. In the bottom of the box were laid two stones crossways of the box, and on these stones lay the plates and the other things with them.

53 I made an attempt to take them out, but was forbidden by the messenger, and was again informed that the time for bringing them forth had not yet arrived, neither would it, until four years from that time; but he told me that I should come to that place precisely in one year from that time, and that he would there meet with me, and that I should continue to do so until the time should come for obtaining the plates.

59 At length the time arrived for obtaining the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breastplate. On the twenty-second day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-seven, having gone as usual at the end of another year to the place where they were deposited, the same heavenly messenger delivered them up to me with this charge: that I should be responsible for them; that if I should let them go carelessly, or through any neglect of mine, I should be cut off; but that if I would use all my endeavors to preserve them, until he, the messenger, should call for them, they should be protected.

So WHERE IS THE BOX? There is no mention in this narrative or any other historical document about the Stone Box being removed by God, Angels or any Witnesses at any Alter. So again WHERE IS THE BOX?

I vaguely recall one witness referring to a broken up stone box had slid down the hill. It was probably just a pile of rocks, but there you go.

The box survived some 12 centuries and then suddenly disintegrates to the bottom of a hill?

Kishkumen wrote:I vaguely recall one witness referring to a broken up stoe box hat had slid down the hill. It was probably just a pile of rocks, but there you go.

Actually, you are recalling a witness who shared a vague memory of something claimed by another fellow who heard a rumor around town many years after the fact. Case closed.

Martin Harris described a money digging incident that took place after Joseph found the plates. Harris is quoted as saying:

"Three of us took some tools to go to the hill and hunt for more boxes of gold or something, and indeed we found a stone box. We got quite excited about it and dug carefully around it, and by some unseen power it slipped back into the hill. We stood there and looked at it and one of us took a crow-bar and tried to drive it through the lid and hold it, but the bar glanced off and broke off one of the corners of the box. Sometime that box will be found and you will see the corner broken off, and then you will know I have told you the truth" ("The Last Testimony of Martin Harris," by E. Cecil McGavin in The Instructor, October, 1930, Vol. 65, No. 10, pp. 587-589).

OR

In a series of interviews a Mormon writer named Edward Stevenson, who was aquainted with Joseph Smith relates what he was told by an old man living near the Hill Cumorah:

"Questioning him closely he stated that he had seen some good-sized flat stones that had rolled down and lay near the bottom of the hill. This had occurred after the contents of the box had been removed and these stones were doubtless the ones that formerly composed the box. I felt a strong desire to see these ancient relics and told him I would be much pleased to have him inform me where they were to be found. He stated that they had long since been taken away."
(REMINISCENCES OF JOSEPH THE PROPHET, And the Coming Forth of the Book of Mormon by Elder Edward Stevenson, 1893 Salt Lake City, Utah)

OR

Brigham claims that Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith returned the gold plates of the Book of Mormon to the 'Hill Cumorah' in New York. He claims that the the hill 'opend' for them and inside the hill is a huge cave that is stacked with piles of gold plates.

". . . I lived right in the country where the plates were found from which the Book of Mormon was translated, and I know a great many things pertaining to that country, and I know a great many things pertaining to that country.

I believe I will take the liberty to tell you of another circumstance that will be as marvelous as anything can be. This is an incident in the life of Oliver Cowdery, that he did not take the liberty of telling such things in meeting as I take.

I tell these things to you, and I have a motive for doing so. I want to carry them to the ears of my brethren and sisters, and to the children also, that they may grow to an understanding of some things that seem to be entirely hidden from the human family.

Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the Hill Cumorah, which he did.

Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room.

He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light, but that it was just as light as day.

They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in corners and along the walls.

The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: 'This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ.'

I tell you this is coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it so they will not be forgotten and lost." -- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol-19 p38-39, 17 June 1877

http://contentdm.lib.BYU.edu/cdm4/docum ... 597&REC=19

Yep, once again a story for the story as to why the story doesn't have any proof other than a story.

for what it's worth

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18965&hilit=seismic&start=21

I have heard, and have no reliable sources so some one correct me if I am wrong, that after Joseph retrieved the plates from whichever hill was Cumorah, that the locals dug the hell out of it looking for other treasures, and said magical cavern full of records.

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I must say, TMB, that is my personal, all-time favorite thread title.

sock puppet wrote:I must say, TMB, that is my personal, all-time favorite thread title.

You heterosexuals are so sex crazed

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:Then again Joseph Smith did describe Book of Mormon witness David Whitmer as a "dumb ass" so not sure how whether we should take his word at face value.

Classic.