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I don't mean for this post to be a drive by criticism of Christianity. The religion still flows in my blood. I still feel positive emotions when I visit Christian monuments. With that, I have some sincere questions:

I grew up believing that a group of people collectively followed through with a plot to kill an innocent man (Jesus). What if nobody really killed him? Wouldn't it be horrible to think that we have erroneously judged so many people of murder? Are we judging these people again and again every time we proclaim our Christian faith?

Zeez, that is Mormon thinking, and it is time to shed it.

I would suggest that you read Matthew 27, Mark 15, Luke 23, and John 19 again. Any people who are in a state of spiritual chaos from invasion, re-invasion, inter-cultural conflict, and loss of faith with obsession with ritual would have done the same to a leader like Jesus. He came to bring a message of spiritual renewal in the face of adversity, rather than to be a leader of a violent rebellion against Roman rule. Their hopes were disappointed. They cannot be condemned for their action. What they did was a result of sinful human nature.

Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. Luke 6:28 Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Luke 23:34

zeezrom wrote:I don't mean for this post to be a drive by criticism of Christianity. The religion still flows in my blood. I still feel positive emotions when I visit Christian monuments. With that, I have some sincere questions:

I grew up believing that a group of people collectively followed through with a plot to kill an innocent man (Jesus). What if nobody really killed him? Wouldn't it be horrible to think that we have erroneously judged so many people of murder? Are we judging these people again and again every time we proclaim our Christian faith?

Interesting question, Z. Despite 2000 years of Christian doctrine, historically, we don't know. No historical record of the event exists.

The roman empire had a very low tolerance of dissent, so I'm guessing that it could well of happened. From the point of view of the Roman authorities it would have been a back story and not really worth mentioning in official records (I suspect that Pontius Pilate was unaware of the event... well below his pay grade). The circumstances surrounding it are still extremely vague.

The Roman legionaries that actually performed the execution were only doing their jobs and most likely didn't think much about it at the time. Just one more crucifixion in a weekly ritual. Who does one blame?

Maybe Jesus could have fallen to his death accidentally? This way, we get the death without the murder.

Some call Joseph Smith a fallen prophet.
I would rather do a study in contrasts, rather than a study of similarities.

zeezrom wrote:Maybe Jesus could have fallen to his death accidentally? This way, we get the death without the murder.

Or he ate a bad bit of lamb? The thing that makes me think there actually was a crucifixion was the later response from the apostles (or those writing for them a hundred years later). A kind of tap dance to cover the obvious problem of a Christ that was mortal and vulnerable to Roman law.

God, or the son of God (depending on how you see it) was killed by the Romans? How could that happen?

Explanations gradually came forth. He must have died for our sins. He must have been a sacrifice approved by God (lamb of God?).

Explanations gradually came forth. He must have died for our sins. He must have been a sacrifice approved by God (lamb of God?).

Three times, Peter denied the fact that he was one of His followers. Perhaps Peter blamed himself for not having done the right thing. Perhaps if His disciples had stayed with him, He would not have died.

But then we have the Resurrection.

Joseph Smith's most prominent disciples were off campaigning for his presidential bid at the time. Joseph Smith stayed dead.

MCB wrote:
I would suggest that you read Matthew 27, Mark 15, Luke 23, and John 19 again. Any people who are in a state of spiritual chaos from invasion, re-invasion, inter-cultural conflict, and loss of faith with obsession with ritual would have done the same to a leader like Jesus. He came to bring a message of spiritual renewal in the face of adversity, rather than to be a leader of a violent rebellion against Roman rule. Their hopes were disappointed. They cannot be condemned for their action. What they did was a result of sinful human nature.

Boy... I hope some guy doesn't come about and totally thrash my life and the psyche of my family and friends.

If it were to happen...

That P.O.S. and his Associates will surely suffer and feel the fiery wrath of that man's sins brought upon me. Without mercy or due process. And If, I am to be found at fault for my lies and deception, let those who shake at me take my pride and possessions. I will defend myself until my bitter undoing, even with naked skin. Defending my dignity, tongue unbound.

AHA-- got it. That is Joseph Smith talking. Not Jesus. Night and day.

MCB wrote:Zeez, that is Mormon thinking, and it is time to shed it.

I would suggest that you read Matthew 27, Mark 15, Luke 23, and John 19 again. Any people who are in a state of spiritual chaos from invasion, re-invasion, inter-cultural conflict, and loss of faith with obsession with ritual would have done the same to a leader like Jesus. He came to bring a message of spiritual renewal in the face of adversity, rather than to be a leader of a violent rebellion against Roman rule. Their hopes were disappointed. They cannot be condemned for their action. What they did was a result of sinful human nature.

Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. Luke 6:28 Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Luke 23:34

Thanks for taking the time to post some references for me, MCB. I'm so happy to have been able to converse with you on this rickety board. :) I understand that most Christian believers really do not look at the death of Christ in the light that I portrayed in the OP. Christianity has much to offer and many people find their lives influenced for good because of how they follow and interpret its tenets.

Rather than shed Mormonism (which I've been doing for quite some time), I should consider shedding my polarized thinking. It really isn't black and white out there.

Blixa, remember how I said you made me appreciate color?

Anyway... gotta run. The sun is shining.

Happy Memorial Day!

Zee.