Scott Gordon: Mormons Can Believe Whatever They Want

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

I guess you reject SS, Medicaid/care, the military, the courts, and the police? No? Then you are a socialist. “F” your Law of Avarice.

[_bcspace]

Quite the Telestial comment don't you think?

Free Market Capitalism is the Lord's way. It's the only economic system under which the LoC can operate and it's completely neutral which preserves man's agency as well as opposition in all things.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Folks, you could believe anything you wanted in the Soviet Union under Stalin, you just had to keep quite about it. LDS Apologetics, holding Mormons and GA's to the high standards of Stalinism since 2011.

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

Quite the Telestial comment don't you think?

Free Market Capitalism is the Lord's way. It's the only economic system under which the LoC can operate and it's completely neutral which preserves man's agency as well as opposition in all things.

True, but you don't support either capitalism nor the free market, do you? Or do you oppose the wars, the drug war, making prostitution illegal, etc?

You see, if one defines socialism as the forced redistribution of wealth then if you support the forced redistribution of others' wealth to the police, the courts, the schools, the roads, then you are a socialist.

If one defines socialism as merely government controlling property and the means of production, and you support the LoC, then you are a socialist.

If you use the violence of the state to achieve your social or political goals then you cannot also claim to believe in free agency.

If you use the violence of the state to prevent open international trade, including open borders for those dirty brown beaners, you cannot also claim to believe in the free markets.

What you are is a national(ist) socialist.

[_bcspace]

Folks, you could believe anything you wanted in the Soviet Union under Stalin, you just had to keep quite about it. LDS Apologetics, holding Mormons and GA's to the high standards of Stalinism since 2011.

The difference being one can leave the LDS Church. One couldn't leave the Soviet Union.

True, but you don't support either capitalism nor the free market, do you?

Yes I do.

Or do you oppose the wars,

I don't oppose the wars I think you are referring to. I do support published LDS doctrine on war such as that expounding on D&C 98.

the drug war, making prostitution illegal, etc?

An interesting video (Everything's Illegal: John Stossel) I posted in Off Topic don't you think? Notice I have never, If I recall correctly, put those items in the list of left wing opposition to LDS doctrine.

That's not to say I have come down on either side of those issues.

You see, if one defines socialism as the forced redistribution of wealth

For nothing other than envy, which socialism is.

If one defines socialism as merely government controlling property and the means of production, and you support the LoC, then you are a socialist.

Nope. The LoC is not an economic system. It retains private property and the free use of it as a fundamental principle. It doesn't impose any price or supply controls. It doesn't prohibit making a profit or saving for future capital investment or retirement etc. It doesn't make people equal in terms of total wealth. etc. etc.

If you use the violence of the state to achieve your social or political goals then you cannot also claim to believe in free agency.

If the law itself or the governmental system prevents changing the law or from people moving to escape the law then you could be right.

[_krose]

You see, if one defines socialism as the forced redistribution of wealth

For nothing other than envy, which socialism is.

What a statement. So let me see it I got this straight. If we want to pool our money for a shared health care system, that's socialism because it's envy of those who can have doctors on retainer?

However, if we want to pool our money for a shared system of fighting fire and crime for everyone, that's not socialism because it's somehow not envy of those who can keep their own bodyguards and firefighters on retainer?

I get it. Socialism is a thought crime. It's all about intent.

[_zeezrom]

I like Scott. He was very generous to me.

[_Bond James Bond]

What a statement. So let me see it I got this straight. If we want to pool our money for a shared health care system, that's socialism because it's envy of those who can have doctors on retainer?

However, if we want to pool our money for a shared system of fighting fire and crime for everyone, that's not socialism because it's somehow not envy of those who can keep their own bodyguards and firefighters on retainer?

I get it. Socialism is a thought crime. It's all about intent.

Indeed. If I don't agree with a war fought by the American military machine but yet unwillingly support that army with my tax dollars does that make the American army socialist?

[_bcspace]

For nothing other than envy, which socialism is.

What a statement.

The truth hurts.

So let me see it I got this straight. If we want to pool our money for a shared health care system, that's socialism because it's envy of those who can have doctors on retainer?

No. It's socialistic envy when you decide everyone must have the same thing and force everyone to participate and have one buyer and/or one seller.

Indeed. If I don't agree with a war fought by the American military machine but yet unwillingly support that army with my tax dollars does that make the American army socialist?

Since Obama saw fit to continue the Bush doctrine despite his election promises, you may choose to move to a different country if you'd like. But that just brings us back the Soviet Union where you wouldn't be allowed to do so. But this is non sequitur as you well know as war is not an economic system.

[_kairos]

well-scott gordon or not my anecdotal evidence of faking being a Mormon goes to my sister in law who fell for a guy from sf while students at utah state. this guy was actually a rc but pretended for a year to be lds up to the point of asking my sister-in law to get married- she made all the plans for a temple wedding but this guy hedged on his interview with the bishop and as we gathered for the wedding in logan a week before the big day, this guy skipped out to california or elsewhere leaving my sister in law with a reception rental place, house full of wedding presents, wedding dress,bridesmaid dresses, a a huge depression that soaked in to their tbm family- as a nevermo i watched in amazement how this guy pulled this off until the gig was up and he needed a temple recommend and endowments and all the other sh**.

so its possible to just wander through moism as a pretender at just abt any level you want- keep ur mouth shut and smile. and i know on this board many suffer from having to do that for family or other reasons.
and my heart goes out to them.

my sis inlaw did get married later to an ex marine vietnam vet, tbm in the line of john d lee-but that's a whole other story. after all these years my sis in law should probbly have married the rc guy, like her sister did(me) :-)

k