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I saw a movie where a guy got baptized in a river (some non-mormon christian denomination). He was mostly immersed, but not completely, and that was good enough for the characters in the movie. That got me thinking of why complete immersion is so important. The roman catholics believe the bread and wine literally turn into the flesh and blood of Christ when they enter your body. Mormons and other christians believe the bread and wine/water are symbolic of Christ's flesh and blood. In the Mormon sacrament, it doesn't matter if you use wonder bread, wheat bread, some weird homemade bread recipe, hot dog buns. It's all symbolic. Yet, with baptism every hair must be immersed. Why? Do Mormons believe the water literally washes away the sins? Is it the water that's important or the priesthood authority? If it is a literal washing with water, then it should be full immersion. But if it is a symbolic washing, why does it need to be a full immersion? The baptism doesn't take if a hair is sticking out of the water?

DarkHelmet wrote:I saw a movie where a guy got baptized in a river (some non-mormon christian denomination). He was mostly immersed, but not completely, and that was good enough for the characters in the movie. That got me thinking of why complete immersion is so important. The roman catholics believe the bread and wine literally turn into the flesh and blood of Christ when they enter your body. Mormons and other christians believe the bread and wine/water are symbolic of Christ's flesh and blood. In the Mormon sacrament, it doesn't matter if you use wonder bread, wheat bread, some weird homemade bread recipe, hot dog buns. It's all symbolic. Yet, with baptism every hair must be immersed. Why? Do Mormons believe the water literally washes away the sins? Is it the water that's important or the priesthood authority? If it is a literal washing with water, then it should be full immersion. But if it is a symbolic washing, why does it need to be a full immersion? The baptism doesn't take if a hair is sticking out of the water?

I can't speak to which symbolic elements are to be strictly followed and which are not (other aspects of the sacrament are quite strict), but the baptism is not just a symbol of becoming clean. It also represents death and resurrection, as well as being born again in Christ. I think it mainly has to do with just setting a standard for a ritual and sticking to it. If there are no clear lines drawn, things can get out of hand. Can a pregnant woman who's by herself in her car drive in the HOV lane? Obviously Latter-day Saints don't believe that if a hair didn't make it under the water, and the two witnesses didn't catch it, the baptism would somehow metaphysically not function.

Might as well literally wash away an abstract concept like sin.

A number of years ago, I believe at a stake priesthood meeting with a visiting general authority, the visiting authority talked about this topic. He explained that while many people in the church talk about baptism washing away sins, that doctrinally this is incorrect. He explained that it was actually the purifying power of the Holy Ghost that removes the sin and that this can only come after the Holy Ghost is bestowed. So, if the memory of an anonymous poster on the internet can be trusted, then according to at least one GA, doctrinally baptism neither symbolically nor literally washes away sin.

Two cases come to mind-both true stories- first the baptizer is so steeped in serious sex related ongoing sin-lied his way to a tr!

of course his words, his right arm/ hand, the dunking absolutely perfect as he baptized his son.

and his my wife announced the divorce the next day-wtf?

what effect does that have on the ordinance since the bishop and sp did not discern his total unworthiness( in heaven he was marked as a son of perdition) do we have a valid baptism here?


second case, actually happened by when my fil baptized son number one, since i was a nevermo. fil forgot to raise his right hand/arm, one witness noticed and the bishop standing by did not require a second dunking because he blurted out "that the position of the right hand/arm did not matter because if my fil had an amputed right hand/arm he could still baptize devoted grandson"-wtf?

need some legalist to chime in on this, please!

just sayin

k

maklelan wrote:Can a pregnant woman who's by herself in her car drive in the HOV lane?

Good question, with all these life-begins-at-conception laws going on the books in states where it's legal to marry your cousin.

moksha wrote:Might as well literally wash away an abstract concept like sin.

QFT!!!

DarkHelmet wrote: The roman catholics believe the bread and wine literally turn into the flesh and blood of Christ when they enter your body.

No Catholics believe that the bread and wine turn in the body and blood of Christ at the words of the consecration spoken by the priest. Adoration would make no sense if Catholics believed as you said.

Do Mormons believe the water literally washes away the sins?

No.

Is it the water that's important or the priesthood authority?

Not the water.

If it is a literal washing with water, then it should be full immersion. But if it is a symbolic washing, why does it need to be a full immersion? The baptism doesn't take if a hair is sticking out of the water?

The symbolism is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. So as Christ died and rose again in resurrected perfect, so also are we dead from our old life and made new. Hence baptism must be by immersion. Even the word translated as "baptism" means to be overwhelmed with water.

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6