DiscussMormonism.com

http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/20 ... statement/

WOW, just WOW. That Royal admits Smith is the author of the witness statement is ... to my mind...just WOW!

After reading Metcalfe, Vogel and Marquardt's works I had come to this conclusion, but to have a BYU prof and believing Mormon admit this is quite ground breaking I believe.

This is up there with the BYU boys admitting the Indians all came from Asia and not the Middle East.

I realize FAIR/MI/FARMS will say they have always said this and all Mormons know this, but I think this is a huge admission.

'Objection, your honor, leading question.'

From what I understand we do not have a copy of the testimony with the witnesses signature. I think many have reasoned that Joseph Smith wrote the witness statement. Then we also have the church changing the words on the statement that the witnesses supposedly testified to.

It does make you wonder.

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm

It is interesting to note that even the signed statement by the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon has been altered. In the 1830 edition (last page) it read:
"... that Joseph Smith, Jr. the Author and Proprietor of this work, has shewn unto us the plates ... "
In the 1964 edition it reads:
"... That Joseph Smith, Jun., the Translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates ... "

Frodo wrote:From what I understand we do not have a copy of the testimony with the witnesses signature. I think many have reasoned that Joseph Smith wrote the witness statement. Then we also have the church changing the words on the statement that the witnesses supposedly testified to.

It does make you wonder.

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm

It is interesting to note that even the signed statement by the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon has been altered. In the 1830 edition (last page) it read:
"... that Joseph Smith, Jr. the Author and Proprietor of this work, has shewn unto us the plates ... "
In the 1964 edition it reads:
"... That Joseph Smith, Jun., the Translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates ... "

Obviously the Church of 1964 knew better what JSJr had been up to in the creation of the Book of Mormon than say...JSJr himself.

Frodo wrote:From what I understand we do not have a copy of the testimony with the witnesses signature. I think many have reasoned that Joseph Smith wrote the witness statement. Then we also have the church changing the words on the statement that the witnesses supposedly testified to.

It does make you wonder.

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm

It is interesting to note that even the signed statement by the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon has been altered. In the 1830 edition (last page) it read:
"... that Joseph Smith, Jr. the Author and Proprietor of this work, has shewn unto us the plates ... "
In the 1964 edition it reads:
"... That Joseph Smith, Jun., the Translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates ... "

I am gobsmacked. The church has altered a material element in the witness statement that it wants us to believe was signed by the eight witnesses all those years ago under conditions of the greatest solemnity, with God as their witness?

Someone care to justify that?

Chap wrote:I am gobsmacked. The church has altered a material element in the witness statement that it wants us to believe was signed by the eight witnesses all those years ago under conditions of the greatest solemnity, with God as their witness?

Someone care to justify that?

I did a bit of research and the change was made in the 1837 edition. This is also the edition where Joseph Smith's title is changed from "author" to translator" on the title page. I guess Joseph Smith felt no compunction about rewriting the eight witnesses' statement ... probably because he wrote it to begin with.

dblagent007 wrote:

Chap wrote:I am gobsmacked. The church has altered a material element in the witness statement that it wants us to believe was signed by the eight witnesses all those years ago under conditions of the greatest solemnity, with God as their witness?

Someone care to justify that?

I did a bit of research and the change was made in the 1837 edition. This is also the edition where Joseph Smith's title is changed from "author" to translator" on the title page. I guess Joseph Smith felt no compunction about rewriting the eight witnesses' statement ... probably because he wrote it to begin with.

JSJr was probably the one that signed their names to it too--if there ever were any signatures.

dblagent007 wrote:I did a bit of research and the change was made in the 1837 edition. This is also the edition where Joseph Smith's title is changed from "author" to translator" on the title page. I guess Joseph Smith felt no compunction about rewriting the eight witnesses' statement ... probably because he wrote it to begin with.

This is an excellent point. As Mike Marquardt keeps telling me, if Smith felt comfortable changing the words of God, then he was completely at ease changing his story (First Vision for example).

I will suggest that Smith was as comfortable changing words that were supposed to have come from other people.

Really fascinating stuff, Joe. You may be interested to know that, a couple of years ago, I was told by an "informant" that Skousen had "royally" pissed off some of the Powers-that-Be in SLC over his work on the Book of Mormon. I'm sure you can understand why: Skousen's work effectively argued that his own critical version of the Book of Mormon is/was more "authoritative" than the one overseen by Joseph Smith himself. If I'm not mistaken, Skousen ignored GA recommendations and went ahead with his publication in spite of what they told him.

Thanks Doc.

All of my friends have nothing but good things to say about Royal. The consistent thing that is said about Royal is that he is the only scholar found at the Maxwell Institute. My guess would be that Royal is such a classy person, he would never suggest such a thing.